Elites are thriving under Trump

[Irish Exit]

Yeah...and I don't imagine bartenders or nurses will be replaced by mechanical shoulders to cry on...or dispensers of TLC. But the problem is much more serious than you think, Kacper.

If you do not see it as such...fine.

I don't view change as a problem. People who want to maintain the status quo are the problem.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I don't view change as a problem. People who want to maintain the status quo are the problem.

I do not view change as a problem either, Kacper. And the very last thing I am is a champion of the status quo!

I view us treating a great blessing as a severe liability...as a major problem. I view people ignoring that problem...to be an even bigger problem.

That is why I am attempting to discuss it here.

 

[Althea]

It massively benefits everyone. It means more people will avoid having to pay federal income taxes. It means those in the third quartile will still pay less than they would have. It means more small business owners will survive.

Yes, the wage gap is still there. Taxation doesn't change the pay scale. But you are foolish if you think people aren't going to appreciate the bigger paychecks.

Meanwhile, the gap grows because Wall St. is seeing the largest scale share buyback by corporations in history. As if we were surprised by that.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

I'll bet Donald and Ivanka and Jarod and...ya know...people like that got a lot!

Ya think?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Bourbon,

The Old Trickle Down Trick ...

Well, of course, we all know that inflation will be trickling down.

 

[Callinectes]

If you make $30K, how much of a tax cut is one expecting to receive?

If you are making $30k, and you play your cards right, you might not be paying any taxes at all

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

If you make $30K, how much of a tax cut is one expecting to receive?

If that's supposed to support a family, that income level probably doesn't pay taxes, so no tax cut. Taxpayers pay them, because capitalism is not providing enough for them to live on.

 

[PoliTalker]

Cutting through the smoke

Hello Thing1,

Smoke & mirrors. They crafted something in such a way that they could say to everyone, "Hey, you got a bigger paycheck...why are you complaining?"

It's mathematically challenged to not understand what this will do to the ever-expanding gap between rich & poor.

Well we don't need numbers to understand that cutting the revenue is going to result in more borrowing and the alarmingly high debt rising faster.

If likely inflation sets in, any increase in take-home pay could quickly be evaporated by a larger increase in the cost of living.

The 'cost of living' could roughly be compared to the 'wealth extraction rate' at which the super-wealthy .1% are extracting wealth from the 99.9%.

That's because all the corporations they own significant parts of - provide the rest of us with what we need to have our lifestyles, and we all pay them for those things.

They do occupy an advantageous position.

But we occupy the majority.

If only we could all get on the same page and do a better job to resist.

 

[Micawber]

How is that Trump tax cut working out for you middle class?!!

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/elites-thriving-trump-195256809.html

Yep, the con man gave the workers crumbs and the rich people hundreds or thousands to millions or even billions each.
And he failed on jobs. The key for his conjob base was jobs. How does that taste, stupid rustbelt? Feeling that trickle down yet?
That is Trump peeing on your back.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

Because reform is about growing the economy which is why it was business focused. We can eliminate federal taxes for those who make under $50K but ultimately that still won't close the gap.

That won't solve the problem. It would actually make it worse. The debt would go up even faster if we did that.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the reality is we have to raise taxes. Particularly and primarily on the rich.

That is the only way we are going to reduce the dangerously high Debt/GDP, and strengthen our shaky economy.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

What do you see as more business friendly vis a vis the tax code in today's global environment?

A single world government with a uniform tax on businesses which cannot be escaped by offshoring jobs would be ideal for all humanity, but in lieu of that we need meaningful international trade agreements based on protecting workers and consumers as much as corporate profits.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello and greetings Kacper,

I have always been honest about this and taxes. I am a progressive who will tell democrats to get off their high horse about the tax cuts. With half the people not paying taxes, they are NEVER going to benefit from a cut in tax rates. I personally wouldn't have cut the rates for other reasons, but as for who benefits from the cuts, it is like a bald man complaining because he didn't get a discounted haircut. Now while I am progressive, I am also mindful this debt is getting a little closer to the brink than I would like, so I would rather see them have allocated some of the money to actual debt reduction. Actually payoff some of these bonds as they become payable and all that. Just because I am on the left doesn't mean I ignore economic realities.

Well said. I completely agree. This tax cut is the wrong move at the wrong time. We can't afford it now.

Here's the basic inescapable truth:

When there is a recession, you can't reduce the debt. The debt is going to rise.

When the economy is doing well, that is the only time the debt can be paid down.

But paying down the debt requires responsible leadership - not a bunch of suck-ups to the American oligarchy.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Superfreak,

It massively benefits everyone. It means more people will avoid having to pay federal income taxes. It means those in the third quartile will still pay less than they would have. It means more small business owners will survive.

Yes, the wage gap is still there. Taxation doesn't change the pay scale. But you are foolish if you think people aren't going to appreciate the bigger paychecks.

The fools are the ones who think we can collect less revenue and avoid sending the debt into orbit.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Superfreak,

The ability of a person to negotiate wages will depend on the labor market. Not on taxation.

That is true. But there is a huge problem with that truth. It is the basic problem with capitalism. Capitalism has absolutely no obligation to provide a job or livable wages to everyone. Or anyone.

We have to use socialism to correct this glaring problem which exists in capitalism.

We impose a minimum age to ensure that a 40 hour worker can support himself. It was once meant to support his small family, but times have changed. And now, it hardly supports one person. Trying to live on $7.25 per hour is ridiculous these days. It is our socialism which is too weak to prevent capitalism from creating extreme wealth inequality.

Capitalism naturally creates growing wealth inequality. That is not sustainable in the long run. So we have to do something. That something is socialism.

We mix socialism with our capitalism to make it tolerable for the masses.

Because the min wage is too low, we have many government assistance programs to make up for that.

People actually work more than 40 hours per week at numerous jobs and still qualify for government assistance programs.

That shows a glaring failure of capitalism to provide meaningful jobs for all who want them.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

The fact is no one wants to touch entitlements. That's what's driving our debt. And most likely no one will want to touch it until it is in full blown crisis mode.

There's a reason elected officials don't want to be seen as taking food from the mouths of starving babes. Not a pretty picture.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hi Frank,

Unfortunately, Thing...one thing that has to be factored in...is...

...NO MATTER WHAT...THERE WILL NEVER BE MORE JOBS...AND HIGHER WAGES.

It just cannot happen using the system now in place.

Every corporation is REQUIRED to make as much money as possible...and that invariably means cutting labor costs. Fewer people being paid...and paying the ones being paid as little as possible.

The entire system has to crash...and be replaced.

I used to think it could be tweaked into some sort of system that would work. But as it stands now...not even tweaking will accomplish anything.

I agree. The current system is unsustainable and is on an accelerating decay cycle. AI will seal the coffin.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

"Market based"..."socialistic based"..."communist based"...doesn't mean diddly squat.

There will be fewer and fewer jobs for humans because the machines are taking over.

The technological growth has become geometric; it was arithmetic for most of human existence.

We simply do not need as much human labor to facilitate what the entirety needs and wants.

Capitalists think they've got the one-up in this deal...but if anything, the beginnings of the crash will be in the capitalistic economies...especially that of America.

SHHH!

We are all trying to ignore this reality VERY HARD.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hello Superfreak,



That is true. But there is a huge problem with that truth. It is the basic problem with capitalism. Capitalism has absolutely no obligation to provide a job or livable wages to everyone. Or anyone.

We have to use socialism to correct this glaring problem which exists in capitalism.

We impose a minimum age to ensure that a 40 hour worker can support himself. It was once meant to support his small family, but times have changed. And now, it hardly supports one person. Trying to live on $7.25 per hour is ridiculous these days. It is our socialism which is too weak to prevent capitalism from creating extreme wealth inequality.

Capitalism naturally creates growing wealth inequality. That is not sustainable in the long run. So we have to do something. That something is socialism.

We mix socialism with our capitalism to make it tolerable for the masses.

Because the min wage is too low, we have many government assistance programs to make up for that.

People actually work more than 40 hours per week at numerous jobs and still qualify for government assistance programs.

That shows a glaring failure of capitalism to provide meaningful jobs for all who want them.

Considering that the "40 hour work week" is a product of the economy of the early 20th century...

...and considering that humans now have the help of billions upon billions of (mechanical) slave hours of toil...

...why in the name of cosmology are we still at a work week of 40 hours?

Our work week should be about 1 hour...or NO HOURS in order to have sufficient for a reasonable life.

We have got to get out of the Protestant work ethic...and get out of it ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

You're not the only one who has a dire prediction of the future with machines taking over but with new technology comes new jobs. Times change and the world will continue to change along with it. The question is are we educating our young people to be prepared to deal with such a future.

That's not guaranteed. That's hindsight. This time will be different. AI will be able to do almost all the new jobs created.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hello cawacko,



That's not guaranteed. That's hindsight. This time will be different. AI will be able to do almost all the new jobs created.

Yup.

And...unless we are stupid...AI should be developed to do almost all jobs...except those few that humans will always have to do...or, at least, should do.

AI may never be able to dispense TLC like a competent human nurse; AI may never be the good shoulder to cry on (or philosophy dispenser) like a competent human bartender; AI will never make a hand-made silk tie.

But for every job for which a machine exists or can be devised...machines (robots, computers and such) will do the job better, more productively, and more cheaply than a human.

We've got to see and acknowledge that now...before crisis overcomes us. This is not something sneaking up on it...this is coming like a trumpeting elephant through a grassy plain.

The notion of humans "earning a living" is done. The Protestant work ethic is a dinosaur. We must be rid of it...and best to do it in reasonable stages than have to abandon it totally and immediately because crisis dictates it.