The Godless left showing their tolerance!

kudzu said:
As I said they follow some variant on the teachings of John Nelson Darby which goes to the pretrib rapture..

They don't accept the following Preterist view.
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Most modern Baptists are ignorant, stupid, and anything but Christian. A hundred years ago, Baptists weren't followers of Darby nor were they pro-war.
 
Bobb said:
Most modern Baptists are ignorant, stupid, and anything but Christian. A hundred years ago, Baptists weren't followers of Darby nor were they pro-war.
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Darby's beliefs picked up speed during the Dust Bowl and the Depression. Are you a follower of David J. Stewart?
 
Hello Woverine,

Wolverine said:
Any ultimate claim about reality begins with a faith commitment. Some skeptics are willing to admit this point (not many, mind you). Take Crispin Sartwell for example, who explains in his Atlantic article how he has taken an "atheist leap of faith." He concedes that religious folk and non-religious folk all have a faith commitment to how they understand the world (which means all folk are religious, by the way!).

Whether we admit it or not, we all build our view of the world on an assumption, a big picture about what's really real, that we cannot prove. That's okay. It's unavoidable. The main question is which starting point, which assumption, what presupposition, is the right one? Which one is true?

The Christian begins with a belief that God exists and that he has revealed himself. That is no more or less religious than Carl Sagan's famous quote, "The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." The question for thinking people is which one is true: either a world that began in chance, is governed by nothing, and is heading nowhere, or one that filled with purpose and meaning because there is a Creator, an intelligence, behind it all.
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OK, excuse me. Did you come here to talk about how you see the left, or to preach?

As for faith, I don't see the big deal there. I'm an atheist and I have very strong faith. What is faith to me? Faith is a belief in something which cannot be proven. I've got that. I believe humanity will continue to improve it's own condition, and will prevail. I can't know that. I have no way to prove it. But it just makes sense to me. I have faith in mankind to do the right thing more than the wrong thing. I know many humans do the wrong thing. But I also believe more of them do the right thing whenever they can. I think we're going to get it. I think we are going to save ourselves from ourselves. I can't know that will happen. I just want to believe it. So that's my faith. I have faith in humans. I throw my future in with the lot. I don't really have much choice, but as long as I am in, I am going to believe that we can work out all our problems eventually. Probably not in my lifetime, but if I can I will help solve whatever ones I can, make whatever improvements I can.

Why, just the other day I solved one of the biggest problems that ever faced mankind.

I solved the shower curtain problem. And I did it for free. I will give my idea away. Here you go. Enjoy:

If you are taking a shower there is this terrible problem with the shower curtain. It attacks you. Right? You jump in there, everything is fine. You turn on the shower with nice hot water streaming down on you and all of a sudden the shower curtain is all over you. What's up with that? Get that thing OFF of me! OK, I solved that. Three clothespins. Take three clothespins and clip the inner liner and the outer shower curtain together (just a little pinch) in three locations, approx 7" above the top of the tub. That's it. Now it won't attack you. You're welcome.

What's going on is the heat from the hot water in your shower is rising. That draws air into the shower, which is blowing the shower curtain inward. The shower curtain is fighting this inflow of air across the top of the tub. If you took an ice cold shower that wouldn't happen. But nobody likes that solution. So I've got a solution that works. Let the air come in around the ends. Let it come in through the creases and folds created by the pinched sections caught up in the clothespins. That's fine. Just keep that freaking shower curtain the heck off of me, ya know? So there ya go. Now you've got something to thank an atheist for. One whose faith is quite strong.

You might be a member of a church or a religion. Good for you. I am a member of the collective of humans on planet Earth. 7+ billion of us. And the good ones among us all look out for one another. So I love you as a fellow human being. I love everybody. I love being a human. I love my life. It's great. I can't imagine an existence being any better than this. That's how much I love my life. Good thing. When it's over it's over. And by then I will be very content. Heck. I already am. All the days I live from hear on out are gravy. It's all frosting on my cake.

ps: I may love everybody, but I'm also smart enough to know that some need to be loved from afar, and it is best not to have anything to do with them. So I respect their freedom to live as they please. I only object when the things they do affect me or people I care about.
 
Hello Wolverine,

Wolverine said:
Which is why the most important things were confirmed in the new testament, so um you lose again!
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And you were wondering what possible cherry-picking of the Bible you might be doing. Nothing like disregarding the first HALF of it or anything, right?
 
christiefan915 said:
I will freely admit to not being an expert but my question is: do any of Jesus' words say that women can't preach the word of God? I don't mean the words of Paul, the Apostles or anyone except Jesus... the "red" words.
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I do not expect the modern version of womanhood to correspond with the traditional view of women, and in many respects if should not. However, when I was growing up we were taught to revere women as the moral backbone of the family, and the community. That meant you gave them respect, opened doors for them, gave up your seat on the bus, never swore in front of a lady, and the list goes on, and on. Now that feminism has argued for their equality with men all of that is gone. Men no longer feel the need to respect women, and women no longer feel the need to be the morality figures they once were.

To answer your question, there are none that I am aware of, however, there are many topics not spoken of by Jesus. e.g homosexuality for one.

https://www.franciscanmedia.org/jesus-extraordinary-treatment-of-women/
 
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kudzu said:
All three Abrahamic religions are about patriarchy.. Descent is traced thru the male line and women have very few rights.. although Islam affords women more rights that early Judaism or Christianity.. They say a man should love his wife like Christ loved the church, but women for the most part were chattel and could not inherit and they could be put to death if they were raped "in town".. Its all somewhat primitive... and doesn't elevate men or women.
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Nope, jewish lineage is through the mother, if you mother is jewish so is the offspring
 
Wolverine said:
Naturally I disagree, i do not think being successful should be punished. A rich man who started his business in his garage, and turned the company into about a 30 million dollar a year company, gave me my job! It has been wonderful to work here thirty years, they gave every employee bonuses at Christmas, gave presents to your kids at Christmas, and brought things when they were born. How about we just make the people who make laws live under them, have term limits, and decrease their pay, and take away their right to insider trade. Also no lifetime benefits, cut their pay to be commensurate with the job, and if you take money from lobbyists, and screw the people for gain you are hung that makes much more sense.
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It is not about punishment. That's a spin word. That's propaganda. The purpose of taxation is not punishment. Calling taxes 'punishment' is propaganda from the greedy rich who want lower taxes. Nobody is being punished. We are talking about the richest people who live in luxury. The appropriate taxation will not change that. They will still have their lives of gaudy displays of wealth, gold, marble, diamonds, expensive toys, priceless art, big fortunes, etc.

Maybe we need to pay legislators a heck of a lot more money. LOTS OF MONEY. REALLY HIGH SALARIES.

Why would we do that?

Maybe if we did that we would

a) Get a higher caliber of worker, and

b) People would care a heck of a lot more about being informed, voting, and participating in Democracy. And

c) It would be a lot harder for big money interests to buy off our legislators.

So you think if tycoons had to pay higher taxes they wouldn't bother to get rich? Higher taxes are not going to make them less competitive if every business had to pay them. And they can't really pay people any less if they want to get the job done with minimal waste. So they would not be able to pass that along in pricing and wage cuts. They would just have to eat it. And you know? That would be just fine. Executives were richer than everybody else back in the 60's when they made 10-15 times what their average worker did and they paid 70-90% income tax. Now they make, like 600 times the average pay? That's ridiculous and excessive. They can afford a lot more tax without so much as a bother.

They were still rich because those tax rates didn't apply to every dollar they made. They pay the same as everybody else on the amount that equals what everybody else makes. They only paid the higher rate on the amounts OVER what others make. That way, taxing never makes a rich man poor. He ALWAYS has more than others, as it should be. And our country gets enough revenue to balance the budget and do great things like build interstates and go to the moon. Now that taxing is so low we can't even balance the budget, any thought of bigger projects like upgrading the interstates is out of the question. We've got bridges falling down. What a crime how rich the super-rich have become as our nation goes downhill and deeper in debt. What poor management of government! There's the Republicans for ya.
 
kudzu said:
All three Abrahamic religions are about patriarchy.. Descent is traced thru the male line and women have very few rights.. although Islam affords women more rights that early Judaism or Christianity.. They say a man should love his wife like Christ loved the church, but women for the most part were chattel and could not inherit and they could be put to death if they were raped "in town".. Its all somewhat primitive... and doesn't elevate men or women.
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I don't think so, Kudzu.

For Jews...and child of a Jewish MOTHER is a Jew.

That is what defines Jews.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Woverine,



OK, excuse me. Did you come here to talk about how you see the left, or to preach?

As for faith, I don't see the big deal there. I'm an atheist and I have very strong faith. What is faith to me? Faith is a belief in something which cannot be proven. I've got that. I believe humanity will continue to improve it's own condition, and will prevail. I can't know that. I have no way to prove it. But it just makes sense to me. I have faith in mankind to do the right thing more than the wrong thing. I know many humans do the wrong thing. But I also believe more of them do the right thing whenever they can. I think we're going to get it. I think we are going to save ourselves from ourselves. I can't know that will happen. I just want to believe it. So that's my faith. I have faith in humans. I throw my future in with the lot. I don't really have much choice, but as long as I am in, I am going to believe that we can work out all our problems eventually. Probably not in my lifetime, but if I can I will help solve whatever ones I can, make whatever improvements I can.

Why, just the other day I solved one of the biggest problems that ever faced mankind.

I solved the shower curtain problem. And I did it for free. I will give my idea away. Here you go. Enjoy:

If you are taking a shower there is this terrible problem with the shower curtain. It attacks you. Right? You jump in there, everything is fine. You turn on the shower with nice hot water streaming down on you and all of a sudden the shower curtain is all over you. What's up with that? Get that thing OFF of me! OK, I solved that. Three clothespins. Take three clothespins and clip the inner liner and the outer shower curtain together (just a little pinch) in three locations, approx 7" above the top of the tub. That's it. Now it won't attack you. You're welcome.

What's going on is the heat from the hot water in your shower is rising. That draws air into the shower, which is blowing the shower curtain inward. The shower curtain is fighting this inflow of air across the top of the tub. If you took an ice cold shower that wouldn't happen. But nobody likes that solution. So I've got a solution that works. Let the air come in around the ends. Let it come in through the creases and folds created by the pinched sections caught up in the clothespins. That's fine. Just keep that freaking shower curtain the heck off of me, ya know? So there ya go. Now you've got something to thank an atheist for. One whose faith is quite strong.

You might be a member of a church or a religion. Good for you. I am a member of the collective of humans on planet Earth. 7+ billion of us. And the good ones among us all look out for one another. So I love you as a fellow human being. I love everybody. I love being a human. I love my life. It's great. I can't imagine an existence being any better than this. That's how much I love my life. Good thing. When it's over it's over. And by then I will be very content. Heck. I already am. All the days I live from hear on out are gravy. It's all frosting on my cake.

ps: I may love everybody, but I'm also smart enough to know that some need to be loved from afar, and it is best not to have anything to do with them. So I respect their freedom to live as they please. I only object when the things they do affect me or people I care about.
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What do you mean when you say your are an atheist, Poli?
 
Frank Apisa said:
I don't think so, Kudzu.

For Jews...and child of a Jewish MOTHER is a Jew.

That is what defines Jews.
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Nope.. Look at Abraham and Keturah, Moses and Zipporah, Boaz and Ruth.. Solomon and David both had many foreign wives. When they returned from the exile in Babylon Ezra told them to divorce their foreign wives and abandon the children of those unions.. Some refused and that began a diaspora.

Try Ezra 10:44.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ezra-Chapter-10/
 
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Phantasmal said:
Can you share what it’s like? We’re your parents staunch?
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My dad has since become a fairly militant atheist, my mom still goes to church and drives my grandmother to church. Honestly I didn't have perspective outside Southern Baptist, I just knew what other types of Christianity practiced through media and the like. I never noticed much emphasis on Revelations, though the idea of Jerusalem being a key part does ring a bell.

Of course my church was overwhelmingly white, most people dressed up. It was a step under a mega church, I'd just call it a relatively wealthy church. Baptism was the big thing (surprise), my particular church had a special baptism pool high up on the back wall behind the pulpit/choir area. Communion was a thing, though rarely, and with grape juice, not wine. There were youth trips, a gymnasium, Christmas cantatas, Vacation Bible School.

My family (mom's side) in particular had always been very prudish, nobody used words worse than "crap" in front of each other. Eventually you realize it's a facade, and everyone just wants to look good, not quite "holier than thou" but just kind of no one wants to seem worse than someone else. This past Christmas was the first time my family drank wine in front of each other. My mother asked me what it tastes like with a very disappointed look on her face, which is funny because my dad told me she used to like wine coolers back in the day.

Being at the church long enough, you begin to understand it's like that for everyone. No one wants to crack the glass exterior. Everyone gossips about everyone. Any conflicts just mean "well I'll just take my perfect family to the other church, on the other side of town!". This actually happened with my Aunt, my cousin was a drummer for the church and someone accused him of trying to steal HIS OWN kit from the stage on a day there was no service. So my Aunt's family went to another church.

I never hated anyone at the church, I just got to a certain age and realized it was all completely batshit.
 
Mr.Badguy said:
My dad has since become a fairly militant atheist, my mom still goes to church and drives my grandmother to church. Honestly I didn't have perspective outside Southern Baptist, I just knew what other types of Christianity practiced through media and the like. I never noticed much emphasis on Revelations, though the idea of Jerusalem being a key part does ring a bell.

Of course my church was overwhelmingly white, most people dressed up. It was a step under a mega church, I'd just call it a relatively wealthy church. Baptism was the big thing (surprise), my particular church had a special baptism pool high up on the back wall behind the pulpit/choir area. Communion was a thing, though rarely, and with grape juice, not wine. There were youth trips, a gymnasium, Christmas cantatas, Vacation Bible School.

My family (mom's side) in particular had always been very prudish, nobody used words worse than "crap" in front of each other. Eventually you realize it's a facade, and everyone just wants to look good, not quite "holier than thou" but just kind of no one wants to seem worse than someone else. This past Christmas was the first time my family drank wine in front of each other. My mother asked me what it tastes like with a very disappointed look on her face, which is funny because my dad told me she used to like wine coolers back in the day.

Being at the church long enough, you begin to understand it's like that for everyone. No one wants to crack the glass exterior. Everyone gossips about everyone. Any conflicts just mean "well I'll just take my perfect family to the other church, on the other side of town!". This actually happened with my Aunt, my cousin was a drummer for the church and someone accused him of trying to steal HIS OWN kit from the stage on a day there was no service. So my Aunt's family went to another church.

I never hated anyone at the church, I just got to a certain age and realized it was all completely batshit.
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Thank you. I have an interest in organized religions. It’s really amazing how even with their differences it’s the same.
 
kudzu said:
Try this.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ezra-Chapter-10/
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In the NT it is the Davidic lineage that is followed, not from Ezra. Matthew, in Matthew 1: 1-17 refers to the geneology of Jesus through the lineage of Joseph, and through Davids son Solomon. Luke follows Jesus lineage through Mary, Luke 3: 25-38, by Davids son Nathan. Both lines serve the purpose of satisfying prophecy for the Davidic requirement. Matthew starts with Abraham, while Luke begins with Adam. The lists are identical between Abraham and David, but differ radically from that point. Point being, until David ones lineage was determined by the fathers lineage. Why you are fixated on Ezra is beyond me.
 
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