Into the Night
Contributor
None. There is no 'garbage patch' in any ocean.
plastic: a global environmental calamity
- Thread starter anatta
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None. There is no 'garbage patch' in any ocean.
countryboy
Verified User
Sailor is on our side. What possible reason would he have to lie?
Into the Night
Contributor
So you think YOUR God deserves more money from the government than THEIR God? The Church of Green and the Church of Global Warming stem from the same source: The Church of Karl Marx.
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
How long does it take to dissolve at the molecular level?
Into the Night
Contributor
Happy cutting! Do you throw the cut pieces in the trash? They go to the same place as your other trash. The solid waste land fill. That's not located in the ocean.
Into the Night
Contributor
I haven't seen a single DEMOCRAT eschew plastics. Many of the "environmentalists" drive cars laden with the stuff, jabber on phones constructed largely of plastics, consume mass quantities of consumer goods made of plastics, and wear plastic clothing.
Greta Thunberg's most famous publicity stunt was accomplished by sailing a plastic boat across the Atlantic.
They are also whining about this stuff on computers that couldn't work without plastics.
Indeed.
Into the Night
Contributor
I am not on anybody's side. Sailor is making a compositional error, claiming that some bit of garbage he sailed through is 'The Great Pacific Garbage Patch'. There is no such thing. Sunlight and bacteria in ocean water break down plastics into their components. They are not plastics anymore. It only takes a few weeks.
Into the Night
Contributor
They don't dissolve. They are eaten by bacteria. It's food to them. UV breaks up molecular chains as well into simpler components. This only takes a few weeks or so for the plastics typically used for packaging, such as plastic bags, six pack rings, blister packs, etc. These are the same bacteria that clean up oil spills for us, and exist naturally in the ocean. They work in all temperatures of water, but they are most effective in warmer waters.
Almost all plastic waste winds up in land fills, and never enter the sea at all.
countryboy
Verified User
I take him at his word, I do not believe he would lie or exaggerate. Thanks for the head's up on not being on anyone's side, I'll remember that.
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
Interesting. Sounds like it needs more study tho.
"The bacteria, found in a region of the North Atlantic Ocean called the Sargasso Sea, is clearly breaking down the plastic, but scientists don’t know if the byproduct is environment-friendly waste or a toxin. If a toxin is produced, the effects could be detrimental to aquatic life.
The finding suggests that the vast ‘garbage patches’ that have been found in the world’s oceans may be full of living communities.
The plastic particles can be seen as a type of artificial reef that certain types of microbes can colonize. Since plastic has a much longer residence time in the water column than any natural particle, this could be making a significant impact.
The part of the Sargasso Sea that scientists studied is depleted of phosphorous and other nutrients, in other words, the question is: are the plastic colonizers stealing away phosphorous from other organisms?"
http://sustainablefootprint.org/plastic-eating-bacteria-in-the-oceans/
lots of stampings and products could be made with hemp. Even auto parts. That is why it was made illegal. The same reasons, petroleum products, should have brought hemp back years ago. https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/hemp-products-list/
you have me mixed up with someone else- i support energy independence and even fraking
but draggin whales into this is useless
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
all comments are welcome here.
but if you are going to challenge conventional wisdom you should at lest cite ( back up)your claim.
I did the research for you and found this
Plastic Breaks Down in Ocean, After All—And Fast August 20, 2009
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...reaks-down-in-ocean-after-all-and-fast/#close
but it's far from a benign situation -same source I 'll post it entirity as I had to sign up for Email to see it (next post)
Though ocean-borne plastic trash has a reputation as an indestructible, immortal environmental villain, scientists announced yesterday that some plastics actually decompose rapidly in the ocean. And, the researchers say, that's not a good thing.
The team's new study is the first to show that degrading plastics are leaching potentially toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A into the seas, possibly threatening ocean animals, and us.
Scientists had previously thought plastics broke down only at very high temperatures and over hundreds of years.
The researchers behind a new study, however, found that plastic breaks down at cooler temperatures than expected, and within a year of the trash hitting the water.
The Japan-based team collected samples in waters from the U.S., Europe, India, Japan, and elsewhere, lead researcher Katsuhiko Saido, a chemist with the College of Pharmacy at Nihon University in Japan, said via email.
All the water samples were found to contain derivatives of polystyrene, a common plastic used in disposable cutlery, Styrofoam, and DVD cases, among other things, said Saido, who presented the findings at a meeting of the American Chemical Society in Washington, D.C., today.
Plastic, he said, should be considered a new source of chemical pollution in the ocean.
Cooking Up Plastic Soup in the Seas
The toxic compounds the team found don't occur naturally in the ocean, and the researchers thought plastic was the culprit.
The scientists later simulated the decomposition of polystyrene in the sea and found that it degraded at temperatures of 86 degrees Fahrenheit (30 degrees Celsius).
Left behind in the water were the same compounds detected in the ocean samples, such as styrene trimer, a polystyrene by-product, and bisphenol A, a chemical used in hard plastics such as reusable water bottles and the linings of aluminum cans.
Bisphenol A (BPA) has been shown to interfere with the reproductive systems of animals, while styrene monomer is a suspected carcinogen.
The pollutants are likely to be more concentrated in areas heavily littered with plastic debris, such as ocean vortices, which occur where currents meet.
(Related: "Giant Ocean-Trash Vortex Attracts Explorers.")
Plastic Breaks Down Fast
About 44 percent of all seabirds eat plastic, apparently by mistake, sometimes with fatal effects. And 267 marine species are affected by plastic garbage—animals are known to swallow plastic bags, which resemble jellyfish in mid-ocean, for example—according to a 2008 study in the journal Environmental Research by oceanographer and chemist Charles Moore, of the Algalita Marine Research Foundation.
Now, it seems, they also face the invisible threat of toxic, plastic-derived chemicals.
Once Styrofoam, for example, breaks down, the tiny polystyrene components start to sink, because they're heavier than water, Moore said. "So it's likely that this styrene pollutant is prevalent throughout the water column and not just at the surface."
Along with Moore, David Barnes, a marine ecologist from the British Antarctic Survey, doesn't think the Japanese team's lab results can be applied uniformly across the ocean, however. Water temperatures are typically much cooler than the 86 degrees Fahrenheit in the study, he said.
"We're talking about, effectively, what happens in [zones] of tropical and some subtropical coasts. And there, [the] study may be very important," Barnes said.
Ocean as "Plastic Soup"
Plastic hits marine creatures with a double whammy, Moore said. Along with the toxic chemicals released from the breakdown of plastic, animals also take in other chemicals that the plastic has accumulated from outside sources in the water.
"We knew ten years ago that plastic could be a million times more toxic than the seawater itself," because plastic items tend to accumulate a surface layer of chemicals from seawater, Moore said. "They're sponges."
Moore worries about the plastic-derived chemicals' potential damage to wildlife. The chemicals can potentially cause cancer in humans, he said, and simpler life-forms "may be more susceptible then we are."
Pollutants also become more concentrated as animals eat other contaminated animals—which could be bad news for us, the animals at the top of the food chain. (Read National Geographic magazine's "The Pollution Within.")
Moore estimates plastic debris—most of it smaller than a fifth of an inch (five millimeters)—is "dispersed over millions of square miles of ocean and miles' deep in the water column.
"The plastic soup we've made of the ocean is pretty universal—it's just a matter of degree," he said. "All these effects we're worried about are happening throughout the ocean as a unity."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...reaks-down-in-ocean-after-all-and-fast/#close
The team's new study is the first to show that degrading plastics are leaching potentially toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A into the seas, possibly threatening ocean animals, and us.
Scientists had previously thought plastics broke down only at very high temperatures and over hundreds of years.
The researchers behind a new study, however, found that plastic breaks down at cooler temperatures than expected, and within a year of the trash hitting the water.
The Japan-based team collected samples in waters from the U.S., Europe, India, Japan, and elsewhere, lead researcher Katsuhiko Saido, a chemist with the College of Pharmacy at Nihon University in Japan, said via email.
All the water samples were found to contain derivatives of polystyrene, a common plastic used in disposable cutlery, Styrofoam, and DVD cases, among other things, said Saido, who presented the findings at a meeting of the American Chemical Society in Washington, D.C., today.
Plastic, he said, should be considered a new source of chemical pollution in the ocean.
Cooking Up Plastic Soup in the Seas
The toxic compounds the team found don't occur naturally in the ocean, and the researchers thought plastic was the culprit.
The scientists later simulated the decomposition of polystyrene in the sea and found that it degraded at temperatures of 86 degrees Fahrenheit (30 degrees Celsius).
Left behind in the water were the same compounds detected in the ocean samples, such as styrene trimer, a polystyrene by-product, and bisphenol A, a chemical used in hard plastics such as reusable water bottles and the linings of aluminum cans.
Bisphenol A (BPA) has been shown to interfere with the reproductive systems of animals, while styrene monomer is a suspected carcinogen.
The pollutants are likely to be more concentrated in areas heavily littered with plastic debris, such as ocean vortices, which occur where currents meet.
(Related: "Giant Ocean-Trash Vortex Attracts Explorers.")
Plastic Breaks Down Fast
About 44 percent of all seabirds eat plastic, apparently by mistake, sometimes with fatal effects. And 267 marine species are affected by plastic garbage—animals are known to swallow plastic bags, which resemble jellyfish in mid-ocean, for example—according to a 2008 study in the journal Environmental Research by oceanographer and chemist Charles Moore, of the Algalita Marine Research Foundation.
Now, it seems, they also face the invisible threat of toxic, plastic-derived chemicals.
Once Styrofoam, for example, breaks down, the tiny polystyrene components start to sink, because they're heavier than water, Moore said. "So it's likely that this styrene pollutant is prevalent throughout the water column and not just at the surface."
Along with Moore, David Barnes, a marine ecologist from the British Antarctic Survey, doesn't think the Japanese team's lab results can be applied uniformly across the ocean, however. Water temperatures are typically much cooler than the 86 degrees Fahrenheit in the study, he said.
"We're talking about, effectively, what happens in [zones] of tropical and some subtropical coasts. And there, [the] study may be very important," Barnes said.
Ocean as "Plastic Soup"
Plastic hits marine creatures with a double whammy, Moore said. Along with the toxic chemicals released from the breakdown of plastic, animals also take in other chemicals that the plastic has accumulated from outside sources in the water.
"We knew ten years ago that plastic could be a million times more toxic than the seawater itself," because plastic items tend to accumulate a surface layer of chemicals from seawater, Moore said. "They're sponges."
Moore worries about the plastic-derived chemicals' potential damage to wildlife. The chemicals can potentially cause cancer in humans, he said, and simpler life-forms "may be more susceptible then we are."
Pollutants also become more concentrated as animals eat other contaminated animals—which could be bad news for us, the animals at the top of the food chain. (Read National Geographic magazine's "The Pollution Within.")
Moore estimates plastic debris—most of it smaller than a fifth of an inch (five millimeters)—is "dispersed over millions of square miles of ocean and miles' deep in the water column.
"The plastic soup we've made of the ocean is pretty universal—it's just a matter of degree," he said. "All these effects we're worried about are happening throughout the ocean as a unity."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...reaks-down-in-ocean-after-all-and-fast/#close
Cancel 2020.1
Canceled
I guess conservatives are on the "pro plastic" side of things.
Probably the wrong side of history. But who knows.
Probably the wrong side of history. But who knows.
No, they are not. Lots of products do not have to use plastics. that is a fact. Show someone whining about that. Damn rightys make shit up and lie.
we couldn't function as a society without them -it's not a lib/con thing.
The problem is in the recycle phase . read the OP for info on that
Cancel 2020.1
Canceled
If we wanted to replace plastic in a 5 year span, we could.
It's the same with oil. We're the same species that sent men to the moon. We can do anything we want to, but lobbyists get in the way.