So this is the awful bargain you are forcing on people; to have health care, you must put yourself, and everyone close to you, at risk during a pandemic.
How are you NOT a monster?
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The Deplorable Blue Collars, truckers, farmers, smelly Walmarters & bitter clingers
- Thread starter Bigdog
- Start date
So this is the awful bargain you are forcing on people; to have health care, you must put yourself, and everyone close to you, at risk during a pandemic.
How are you NOT a monster?
Since I opposed the war how did I think those who opposed it were as bad as those who favored it. You make no sense. It doesn't matter how Obama voted (when it didn't matter). What matters is that he continued a war that only got worse.
I don't believe you opposed the Iraq War. I think you're lying about that. I don't think you supported it either. I think what happened is you simply disconnected from it because you could, because it didn't have anything to do with you, and you wanted to "rise above the fray" because "bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe".
My vote for 3rd party in 2016 is nothing compared to your long-term support of a party that initiated or supported multiple foreign policy interventions over our history. Nobody died because of my vote while millions died because of the actions of your party.
Your vote for 3P in 2016 is directly responsible for the mess we find ourselves in today.
And no amount of you pointing fingers at others, on unrelated topics, is going to change that, Flash.
You will forever have to live with that stink of a choice you made.
Let's hope you choose better this time.
Flash, it is your argument that I am merely repeating back to you.
Your indictment of M4A is "lOoK aT tHe FrAuD", but you can't look at that fraud without also looking at fraud among private insurance companies. Because, as you said, the private sector is taking advantage of it. The same private sector you want to administrate our health care. And BTW - private insurance companies do a lot of administration for Medicare, the institution you are trying to say is rife with fraud.
So it would seem that the private insurance companies are the problem here, because Medicare or not, they're still being defrauded, right?
Aetna is defrauded in Medicare.
Aetna is also defrauded outside of Medicare.
So...?
The fraud is not because of public or private but the mentality used in forming government programs. The problem is politics--not public or private. For example, Medicare did not include competitive bidding for supplies because politicians said the large corporations could outbid the smaller ones. To get political support to pass the program they had to spread the wealth around and allow the small suppliers their share. Medicare, as a result, pays much more than the VA for the same products.
I often get calls asking me if I "still" have the pain in my back, knee, etc. I tell them "no" and they congratulate me and say I am eligible for their free back brace from Medicare. If I agreed they would send me a "free" brace that the company would probably charge Medicare several times the actual cost.
Members of Congress have no real concern about the waste because it means money going into their district which helps the economy (especially valuable in poor districts). Of course, you probably think this is a good thing, but I think it is wasting our money that could be spent on something useful.
Nobody died because of my vote while millions died because of the actions of your party.
Wrong. 26,000+ have died so far because of your choice. Which is six times the number of Americans killed in Iraq. And Iraq has nothing to do with COVID and Trump's shit response. That's all on you and millions of people just like you.
No, it had nothing to do with trusting Republicans about WMDs
Yes it did, Flash. The whole thing was that they were persuaded to vote for that war based on the intelligence Bush and the GOP were sharing. Intelligence we now know was cooked. Some of us, like Obama, knew so at the time. Others, like Clinton and Kerry, shortly came to find out that mistake once we invaded Iraq and there was nary a single WMD to be found.
Even though Bush said there were.
Even though Cheney said there were.
Even though Powell said there were.
Even though Rice said there were.
So some Democrats were prescient enough to know the GOP are a bunch of liars and frauds, and others needed some time to catch up.
The point is what lesson you take away from that, and you don't seem to have taken anything away from it, which makes me think you disconnected from it because you couldn't maintain "BoThSiDeS" when one side was full of liars.
Your vote for 3P in 2016 is directly responsible for the mess we find ourselves in today.
And no amount of you pointing fingers at others, on unrelated topics, is going to change that, Flash.
You will forever have to live with that stink of a choice you made.
Let's hope you choose better this time.
This shows your illogical thinking. If I voted for Hillary Trump would have still carried my state by 800,000 votes. Even if Hillary won we would still be in the same shape because government is never prepared to handle such crises.
The bureaucracy is responsible for such preparations and carrying out these operations--not the president. The bureaucracy does not change. I live in a hurricane prone area and the response was no better under Democrat or Republican. People trying really hard but very disorganized and uncoordinated--the same as in other nations.
Yes it did, Flash. The whole thing was that they were persuaded to vote for that war based on the intelligence Bush and the GOP were sharing. Intelligence we now know was cooked. Some of us, like Obama, knew so at the time. Others, like Clinton and Kerry, shortly came to find out that mistake once we invaded Iraq and there was nary a single WMD to be found.
So some Democrats were prescient enough to know the GOP are a bunch of liars and frauds, and others needed some time to catch up.
The point is what lesson you take away from that, and you don't seem to have taken anything away from it, which makes me think you disconnected from it because you couldn't maintain "BoThSiDeS" when one side was full of liars.
You missed the point.
Would you have supported the Iraq War if it was proven they had WMDs?
No, it had nothing to do with trusting Republicans about WMDs. It is about having the knowledge to know invading and occupying another nation only has catastrophic results (even if they had WMDs) and hurts the country's interests in the long-run.
If your takeaway from the Iraq War is that we shouldn't occupy and invade other countries, I have two things to say:
1. Why did it take you that long to figure that out?
2. The invasion and occupation was predicated on false intelligence that the President and the GOP were putting out there.
In 2003, it was perfectly reasonable for some people to trust Bush and the GOP had their best interests at heart. People were still scared from 9/11. Bin Laden was still putting out mixtapes. Al Qaeda was still making threats. So I understand why some people got caught up in that. But what bothers me is that those same people aren't taking the right lessons away from this. Like you.
The fraud is not because of public or private but the mentality used in forming government programs.
What do government programs have to do with Blue Cross Blue Shield's own private insurance plan and people defrauding it?
Nothing.
Government has nothing to do with people defrauding Aetna or Humana. And why, if these companies are so wonderful, is there even fraud in Medicare when a lot of Medicare is administered by those same private companies?
For example, Medicare did not include competitive bidding for supplies because politicians said the large corporations could outbid the smaller ones. To get political support to pass the program they had to spread the wealth around and allow the small suppliers their share. Medicare, as a result, pays much more than the VA for the same products.
But Medicare is partially run by private insurance companies, while the VA isn't.
So you just made the case for government-run health care.
Good work. It only took a few years, but you got there!
Wrong. 26,000+ have died so far because of your choice. Which is six times the number of Americans killed in Iraq. And Iraq has nothing to do with COVID and Trump's shit response. That's all on you and millions of people just like you.
You obviously have no empathy for all the innocent civilians who died or Americans disabled for life.
I said millions died because of the actions in your party. Not just Americans. 50,000 Americans died in Vietnam. And we have no real numbers for the civilians who died in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan under Obama, and all the other interventions listed earlier. Your party is responsible for millions of innocent deaths and your vote in 2016 continues that trend under a person who voted for that war.
I am honest enough to know both parties are responsible for such policies. Your binary good-evil view blinds your vision.
I often get calls asking me if I "still" have the pain in my back, knee, etc. I tell them "no" and they congratulate me and say I am eligible for their free back brace from Medicare. If I agreed they would send me a "free" brace that the company would probably charge Medicare several times the actual cost.
Sounds to me like we should nationalize medical manufacturers too.
Members of Congress have no real concern about the waste because it means money going into their district which helps the economy (especially valuable in poor districts). Of course, you probably think this is a good thing, but I think it is wasting our money that could be spent on something useful.
Yes, I think health care for people is a good thing. You don't. That's the fundamental difference between us.
This shows your illogical thinking. If I voted for Hillary Trump would have still carried my state by 800,000 votes. Even if Hillary won we would still be in the same shape because government is never prepared to handle such crises.
Look, I've already addressed this 5 times with you on this thread.
You get just as much blame for Trump as the 800,000 others who failed to make up that gap in your state.
I would say the same thing to them. You just get to be the one representing them here because you made the choice to do so. So since you made that choice, you get to be the punching bag for this. I would love nothing more than to have this same discussion with every single one of the Flashes out there. More than you could possibly know. But I can't. Instead, I'm forced to deal with your stupid ass. And that has clearly upset you quite a bit because you genuinely believed that voting 3P insulated you from criticism or blame.
Trump won by 800,000 in your state...I don't blame the 800,001st person more than the 800,000 themselves. You're all equally reprehensible. But you are forced to answer for them here because you made the choice to do so. You didn't have to disclose you voted 3P, yet you did. You didn't have to say you lived in a red state, yet you did. You didn't have to do any of that excuse-making, yet you did. So, yeah, you have to accept responsibility now because you're the representative of those people on JPP.
This is what owning your choices means. You seem very immature and not ready to handle that kind of responsibility. So I guess it's my fault for having higher expectations of you than this.
My bad. Don't worry, you've done a fine job diminishing my expectations of you all on your own through what you post.
Even if Hillary won we would still be in the same shape because government is never prepared to handle such crises.
Well, I guess we'll never know because 4 years ago, you and millions like you thought it would be a real kick to throw your vote away over such childishness.
The bureaucracy is responsible for such preparations and carrying out these operations--not the president. The bureaucracy does not change.
OF COURSE the bureaucracy changes! Trump fired the pandemic response team and didn't replace them! OMFG. The length you go to try and convince yourself you have no responsibility as a voter is pathetic.
Not really. No they're not. This is a fantasy. Any nurses are already working, and no one is switching jobs in the middle of this.
BS. People are leaving their states and country (Canada) go to NY or other areas with need. I know a nurse who could work many additional hours (and continuing her current job) if she was willing to go to the COVID unit. I have seen the cards and listened to the calls my wife has received. Many do not want to work in COVID and they are always short.
I live in a hurricane prone area and the response was no better under Democrat or Republican. People trying really hard but very disorganized and uncoordinated--the same as in other nations.
BULLSHIT.
BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.
First of all, you can see the difference between FEMA hurricane responses just comparing Sandy to Maria.
Second of all, the state you live in is probably run by Republicans. We know how that always turns out...
Thirdly, your anecdotes, which you rely on for everything, are clouded by your inherent biases, so you can never give an honest accounting of things because of your dogma.
Finally, there were three pandemics during Obama, and never once did we have to go through social distancing, never once did 17M people lose their jobs and health care, and never once did 26,000+ die in a matter of weeks.
People trying really hard but very disorganized and uncoordinated--the same as in other nations.
But not every nation.
Certainly not in Germany.
Certainly not in Canada.
Certainly not in South Korea.
Certainly not in Japan.
Certainly not in New Zealand or Belgium.
So why here? Simple; because you spent the last 40 years saying "government is the problem", you voted for people who think that, so the natural result is the situation we are in today.
You only have yourself to thank for this.