End of the line for noted traitor Robert E Lee

[Mason Michaels]

Should Penn State have kept the statue of Joe Paterno up outside the stadium?

Yes

 

[BartenderElite]

No. All Bill Clinton statues and things named for him should also be removed.

Do you understand the difference between sexual predators and the men and women who supported their respective countries in war?

I do. But do you understand the horrors and lasting scars of slavery?

This actually isn't a big issue for me. But I get that some wouldn't want a reminder of someone who fought hard to preserve slavery in their town.

 

[Darth Omar]

The "easily offended" culture? You mean the crew that gets so outraged by players kneeling for 2 minutes that they announce righteously that they'll never watch a sport again?

It’s their right lol?

Notice that they aren’t imposing their rights on anyone else. History buffs that advocate civil war monument stay put are slurred as racists; likewise, for politicians, so they fold up like cheap tents at the mere mention of the R-word. So all the monuments come down—and is the mob happy?

Of course not, they’re just getting started. The only question is, what’s next?

At any rate, one of my fishing holes is at the mouth of Scary Creek where one of the first battles of the Civil War was fought. When the flathead aren’t cooperating, I’ll sit there and imagine what that exact spot would have been like during that battle—which the confederates won. It may have been their first victory, in fact.

That fascinates me. Maybe I’m just odd.

 

[BartenderElite]

It’s their right lol?

Notice that they aren’t imposing their rights on anyone else. History buffs that advocate civil war monument stay put are slurred as racists; likewise, for politicians, so they fold up like cheap tents at the mere mention of the R-word. So all the monuments come down—and is the mob happy?

Of course not, they’re just getting started. The only question is, what’s next?

At any rate, one of my fishing holes is at the mouth of Scary Creek where one of the first battles of the Civil War was fought. When the flathead aren’t cooperating, I’ll sit there and imagine what that exact spot would have been like during that battle—which the confederates won. It may have been their first victory, in fact.

That fascinates me. Maybe I’m just odd.

Of course. It's anyone's right to be easily offended.

Not sure what you mean about imposing rights. Did I miss something? Is Kaep still playing football?

I'm the same way as you about history. Love that stuff. I stood in the Roman colosseum once, a true horror show historically, and spent a lot of time contemplating what it would have been like in its heyday. History is fascinating.

I'd object to the characterization of "easily offended" to someone who would want Lee's statue down. If someone had to pass that every day, and they felt as I do - that statues are commemorative & something to honor - I get why they want it down. I find the arguments that these things "teach history" to be hollow. It's a statue. There were hundreds of important figures in that war. Teaching is done by books, schools, museums, etc. Statues are put up to honor people.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think moon needs to hook up with a nice, respectable space alien. It would do him/her/it? a world of good, actually an INTERGALACTIC world of good!

Anything to loosen up that orifice.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I do. But do you understand the horrors and lasting scars of slavery?

This actually isn't a big issue for me. But I get that some wouldn't want a reminder of someone who fought hard to preserve slavery in their town.

Yes. My ancestors were slaves.

Yet you push the ideology. LOL Giving everyone a safe space is both typically Democrat and impossible to do. Life is tough.
I agree slavery is wrong and we don't have slavery. I agree that all Americans should be treated equally; it's in the Constitution so make it happen. I fail to see how erasing history is going to cause some Americans to stop being authoritarian assholes telling others what to do, being bought and paid for through their "foundations" and the failure of our nation's leaders to do what is best for the country and not just their party. Seems to me Americans are protesting the wrong people.

 

[Darth Omar]

Of course. It's anyone's right to be easily offended.

Not sure what you mean about imposing rights. Did I miss something? Is Kaep still playing football?

I'm the same way as you about history. Love that stuff. I stood in the Roman colosseum once, a true horror show historically, and spent a lot of time contemplating what it would have been like in its heyday. History is fascinating.

I'd object to the characterization of "easily offended" to someone who would want Lee's statue down. If someone had to pass that every day, and they felt as I do - that statues are commemorative & something to honor - I get why they want it down. I find the arguments that these things "teach history" to be hollow. It's a statue. There were hundreds of important figures in that war. Teaching is done by books, schools, museums, etc. Statues are put up to honor people.

Kap is a marginal NFL QB.

But shouldn’t it be left to the owners to decide if they want a divisive player on their team—especially, at QB?

Ok, the statues go. Where do you draw the line? Because they are not done yet.

 

[Cypress]

Maybe so, but reducing the history of slavery in the Americas to a footnote the wrong path. Same for divisive ideologies.

No one is erasing history.

Memorials and monuments are dedications generally to people who are held out as models or icons.

History books and education are the venue for historical knowledge. I believe all Americans should receive better educations on the civil war, and the lessons it can teach us. I believe the civil war is the most momentous event in our nation's history and deserves reflection and the highest level of scholarship.

 

[Celticguy]

When did statues become about "teaching history?"

If someone wanted to put a statue of Stalin in your town's square, would you support that? He's a pretty important figure in history, after all.

What else are they for ?
They are history.

 

[Cancel 2020.2]

Anything to loosen up that orifice.

Yep! To paraphrase the great John Lennon, "All You Need Is Intergalactic Love".........

 

[Darth Omar]

Yes. My ancestors were slaves.

Yet you push the ideology. LOL Giving everyone a safe space is both typically Democrat and impossible to do. Life is tough.
I agree slavery is wrong and we don't have slavery. I agree that all Americans should be treated equally; it's in the Constitution so make it happen. I fail to see how erasing history is going to cause some Americans to stop being authoritarian assholes telling others what to do, being bought and paid for through their "foundations" and the failure of our nation's leaders to do what is best for the country and not just their party. Seems to me Americans are protesting the wrong people.

All of our ancestors were slaves and/or slave owners at some point. Only depends on how far back you want to to go. If one is of Southern European descent, some of ‘your people’ were thrown on slave vessels and carted off to North Africa.

By Muslims.

One of the ‘uncomfortable facts’ of the early American slave trade is that it would have been impossible without native black Africans.

Who do you think captured all those slaves for the white slave traders?

Nobody comes out looking all that great, in history.

 

[Darth Omar]

So SJW’s, how far do we take this?

Everyone realize Charles Darwin was a racist by today’s standards? No statue for him. Hell, practically everyone from the Victorian age was a racist by today’s standards.

 

[anatta]

The goal is to rub out history, because a people who dont know their history are easier to control. As monuments are taken down shrines to the heros of the day, the victims, will be erected.

the whole sorry lot is so reminiscent of Mao's Cultural Revolution.

That wasn't just the collectives that caused widespread famine -it was also the wiping out of any and all reference s to "old China" which is typical of facist revolutions . Even changing street names was part of Mao's strategy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Olds
The campaign to Destroy the Four Olds and Cultivate the Four News (Chinese: 破四旧立四新; began in Beijing on August 1966[3] The first things to change were the names of streets and stores: "Blue Sky Clothes Store" to "Defending Mao Zedong Clothes Store", "Cai E Road" to "Red Guard Road", and so forth.

Shaming/re-educating the intellectuals who would remember 'old China' was part of it

1. you must be woke
2.you must not criticize the leadership -to do so invites name calling and marginalization
3. you must join in and express your wokeness when others shame leadership into the fold

 

[BartenderElite]

So SJW’s, how far do we take this?

Everyone realize Charles Darwin was a racist by today’s standards? No statue for him. Hell, practically everyone from the Victorian age was a racist by today’s standards.

Slavery was America's Holocaust. Lee didn't just fight to preserve it. He led the fight to preserve it.

You really don't see the difference?

 

[Darth Omar]

Slavery was America's Holocaust. Lee didn't just fight to preserve it. He led the fight to preserve it.

You really don't see the difference?

You seem convinced they will stop at Lee.

 

[BartenderElite]

What else are they for ?
They are history.

Can you name a statue that wasn't put up to honor that person?

I'm not being snarky. I can't think of any. My experience is that when people want to put up a statue, it's to honor that person.

 

[BartenderElite]

You seem convinced they will stop at Lee.

Slippery slope arguments are meaningless to me.

Argue it on its own merits. Don't rely on a hypothetical.

 

[Celticguy]

Can you name a statue that wasn't put up to honor that person?

I'm not being snarky. I can't think of any. My experience is that when people want to put up a statue, it's to honor that person.

They proved themselves worthy of honor, thats what gets remembered in history. Opinions change sometimes but history doesnt.

 

[Phantasmal]

No one is erasing history.

Memorials and monuments are dedications generally to people who are held out as models or icons.

History books and education are the venue for historical knowledge. I believe all Americans should receive better educations on the civil war, and the lessons it can teach us. I believe the civil war is the most momentous event in our nation's history and deserves reflection and the highest level of scholarship.

It’s not like most those monuments were erected in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War. They came later.

"Most of the people who were involved in erecting the monuments were not necessarily erecting a monument to the past," said Jane Dailey, an associate professor of history at the University of Chicago."But were rather, erecting them toward a white supremacist future."
The most recent comprehensive study of Confederate statues and monuments across the country was published by the Southern Poverty Law Center last year. A look at this chart shows huge spikes in construction twice during the 20th century: in the early 1900s, and then again in the 1950s and 60s. Both were times of extreme civil rights tension.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/5442...e-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No one is erasing history.

Memorials and monuments are dedications generally to people who are held out as models or icons.

History books and education are the venue for historical knowledge. I believe all Americans should receive better educations on the civil war, and the lessons it can teach us. I believe the civil war is the most momentous event in our nation's history and deserves reflection and the highest level of scholarship.

By your logic, the Holocaust museum in Washington, DC is a dedication to genocide. Dude, it's not the monument that matters but how it's viewed. Obviously the Holocaust museum is a memorial to those killed by genocide.

By tearing down statues, they're simply erasing history; Democrat historical revisionism at its best.