Karl Rove on Chris Wallace: "It will take years for the Republican Party to rebuild"

Hawkeye10 said:
I remind that Rove as been one of the premier leaders of the R's and the Right over decades where both have profoundly failed America by failing to confront the Leftist Revolution that has now taken ownership of America, and even failed to warn us that America was being taken from us.

Follow him at your own risk.
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If we could go back 20 to 30 years (or further) what would you have done to stop the leftist revolution?
 
cawacko said:
Obviously my style of Republicanism is not in vogue right now. The Reagan vision of free trade, pro-immigration etc. While the economic data shows clearly that trade increases growth, and thus a higher standard of living, it also does leave people behind and that can't be ignored. Trump appealed to many of those people. On paper 'America first' sounds great, I mean who isn't for America? But tariffs retard growth. Tariffs aren't going to lead us back to a 1950's style economy. Technological advancement has made sure of that. So I acknowledge there needs to be a balancing act in the way we help those left behind.

Just my opinion of course but I don't think Trump broadened the base. I've read a fair bit the argument that Republicans should be a more working class party. But the reality is the white working class isn't a growing portion of the population. More young people are going to school and the country is diversifying. The GOP needs to be able to appeal to those folks and I don't believe we're doing that.
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What a refreshing, honest, and well-informed synopsis of the current political system. Thank you.

My take:

Both (D)s and (R)s have abandoned those blue-collar workers left behind as globalization and automation coincided. The (D)s pushed college education. That's great but a lot of blue-collar workers have no interest or ability. (R)s pushed punishments on trading partners and told blue-collar workers that their lack of good jobs at their skill level was because (D)s sold them out to foreign countries for cheaper labor. Both are wrong.
 
cawacko said:
If we could go back 20 to 30 years (or further) what would you have done to stop the leftist revolution?
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He couldn't' have done anything. It's impossible to stop social change. Like Trump famously said, "It is what it is". The human race has been sociology evolving through ages and now we are transitioning from the Steam Engine Industrial Age to the Virtual Age.

Change is hard and harder the older we get, especially with tech. Tech scares older people, and those who are just stupid, fear causes people to fold up and collapse or lash out in anger. Better to just help people learn the tech so they are not so frightened of a rapidly changing world.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
cawacko said:
Obviously my style of Republicanism is not in vogue right now. The Reagan vision of free trade, pro-immigration etc. While the economic data shows clearly that trade increases growth, and thus a higher standard of living, it also does leave people behind and that can't be ignored. Trump appealed to many of those people. On paper 'America first' sounds great, I mean who isn't for America? But tariffs retard growth. Tariffs aren't going to lead us back to a 1950's style economy. Technological advancement has made sure of that. So I acknowledge there needs to be a balancing act in the way we help those left behind.

Just my opinion of course but I don't think Trump broadened the base. I've read a fair bit the argument that Republicans should be a more working class party. But the reality is the white working class isn't a growing portion of the population. More young people are going to school and the country is diversifying. The GOP needs to be able to appeal to those folks and I don't believe we're doing that.
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What a refreshing, honest, and well-informed synopsis of the current political system. Thank you.

My take:

Both (D)s and (R)s have abandoned those blue-collar workers left behind as globalization and automation coincided. The (D)s pushed college education. That's great but a lot of blue-collar workers have no interest or ability. (R)s pushed punishments on trading partners and told blue-collar workers that their lack of good jobs at their skill level was because (D)s sold them out to foreign countries for cheaper labor. Both are wrong.
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Let's hope more Americans think like you two and the nation starts back on a path of prosperity and growth.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Let's hope more Americans think like you two and the nation starts back on a path of prosperity and growth.
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The reason that I've hung out on political and other subject discussion forums for over 25 years is because of stuff like this. I LOVE the give and play, the arguments, the flame wars, and battles. But best of all are these little gems of a meeting of the thoughts and minds of real citizens. Most of America is like this. Let's all try to be more like that too, eh?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
What a refreshing, honest, and well-informed synopsis of the current political system. Thank you.

My take:

Both (D)s and (R)s have abandoned those blue-collar workers left behind as globalization and automation coincided. The (D)s pushed college education. That's great but a lot of blue-collar workers have no interest or ability. (R)s pushed punishments on trading partners and told blue-collar workers that their lack of good jobs at their skill level was because (D)s sold them out to foreign countries for cheaper labor. Both are wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm probably the wrong messanger for this considering I've taught my four year old the USC fight song and well as the Ivy League schools but I agree, not everyone needs to go to college. Not everyone is academically inclined, or interested. That doesn't mean they aren't smart or are bad people. I mean we could look at some of those on Wall St who have f'd us that have fabulous academic pedigrees but does that make them better people? I think of some of the people Mott talks about from the sticks of Ohio who may not be the most sophisticated folks but would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.

And in this day and age with the massive amount of debt some people are having to take on the degree they are pursuing may not be worth it economically. All things being equal if a kid has a chance to go to school then I recommend they do but with trade schools, culinary schools, IT certificates etc. there are other options besides four year Universities and there's absolutely nothing wrong with going those routes.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
The reason that I've hung out on political and other subject discussion forums for over 25 years is because of stuff like this. I LOVE the give and play, the arguments, the flame wars, and battles. But best of all are these little gems of a meeting of the thoughts and minds of real citizens. Most of America is like this. Let's all try to be more like that too, eh?
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Agreed. Most are with their families instead of hanging out online with political junkies. ;)

Even so, despite all the drama and the nut jobs, the elections have become incredibly close. Most don't seem happy with their own party much less the opposition. Four years of Trump's drama and chaos has fatigued the nation on both sides of the aisle. Hopefully they'll demand more sanity.
 
This is the first time in a long time that a third party is a possibility. I doubt the Triumpies can reconcile with the Repubs. They are not the kind of people who have compromise in their vocabulary.
 
cawacko said:
I'm probably the wrong messanger for this considering I've taught my four year old the USC fight song and well as the Ivy League schools but I agree, not everyone needs to go to college. Not everyone is academically inclined, or interested. That doesn't mean they aren't smart or are bad people. I mean we could look at some of those on Wall St who have f'd us that have fabulous academic pedigrees but does that make them better people? I think of some of the people Mott talks about from the sticks of Ohio who may not be the most sophisticated folks but would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.

And in this day and age with the massive amount of debt some people are having to take on the degree they are pursuing may not be worth it economically. All things being equal if a kid has a chance to go to school then I recommend they do but with trade schools, culinary schools, IT certificates etc. there are other options besides four year Universities and there's absolutely nothing wrong with going those routes.
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Tech jobs can be used online, learned online, allows people to telecommute and pays very well.

https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programmer
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Defended the Universities.....the capitulation of the University faculty and admins of the 60's was the original sin.
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What was Karl Rove going to do about that in 2000? (or anybody for that matter once progressives had taken over)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Defended the Universities.....the capitulation of the University faculty and admins of the 60's was the original sin.
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...says a college dropout. LOL

How do you figure Universities are in charge of all social change when, like yourself, most American adults don't have a four year degree much less a Master's or Doctorate?

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020/educational-attainment.html

In 2019, high school was the highest level of education completed by 28.1% of the population age 25 and older and 22.5% finished four years of college.
From 2010 to 2019, the percentage of people age 25 and older with a bachelor’s degree or higher jumped from 29.9% to 36.0%.

In the past decade, the rate of labor force participation of the population age 25 and over fell for all education groups except those who had not completed high school, whose rate was not statistically different. Labor force participation fell 3.1% for people with a bachelor’s degree or higher. It fell by 5.1% among those with some college or an associate degree, and by 4.5% for those who completed high school. (Labor force participation includes people who are employed or unemployed, but excludes people who are retired, taking care of home or family, or otherwise not participating in the labor market.​)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Defended the Universities.....the capitulation of the University faculty and admins of the 60's was the original sin.
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BTW: The primary cause of the failure of the Universities in the 60's was the GI Bill.

Talk about unintended consequences!
 
cawacko said:
I'm probably the wrong messanger for this considering I've taught my four year old the USC fight song and well as the Ivy League schools but I agree, not everyone needs to go to college. Not everyone is academically inclined, or interested. That doesn't mean they aren't smart or are bad people. I mean we could look at some of those on Wall St who have f'd us that have fabulous academic pedigrees but does that make them better people? I think of some of the people Mott talks about from the sticks of Ohio who may not be the most sophisticated folks but would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.

And in this day and age with the massive amount of debt some people are having to take on the degree they are pursuing may not be worth it economically. All things being equal if a kid has a chance to go to school then I recommend they do but with trade schools, culinary schools, IT certificates etc. there are other options besides four year Universities and there's absolutely nothing wrong with going those routes.
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Ra-men.
 
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