Salon magazine says Israel committing war crimes in latest round of fighting.

[Diesel]

All over the world people are rejecting lies and prosemitic spiel such as this, marching in the streets for Palestine and threatening their politicians with ejection if they don't stop swapping morals for shekels.
The winds are changing. The Izraeli fascists have overplayed their hand. The sympathy for them has gone. Now it's the Palestinians who have the sympathy of a world sick of fascist Jews and their gutless American and British support.
It has been coming for some time.

Oof, that's harsh. The struggles in Jewish history are incomparable. The challenges of the region are utterly insolvable. The Israeli state has taken many dubious actions, but the Palestinians are not blameless. They're going to continue killing each other forever. "Peace in the Middle East" is never going to happen; and the US overinvested itself in a lost cause.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

haven't you heard? there's no such thing as palestinians. it's not an approved identity.

Your cap key is broken too, huh AssHat?

In any case, if a people call themselves something, that's what makes it their name.

 

[Drummie123]

I'm talking about corruption, grifting, fraud, accepting bribes etc. You guys can't seem to separate this corruption from the hostilities.

Yes, we can.

But when the country is under attack, you support your leader until the danger is past. And THEN you hash out the family squabbles.

 

[Drummie123]

Your cap key is broken too, huh AssHat?

In any case, if a people call themselves something, that's what makes it their name.

But your post is evidence that the brainwashing and mind fu**ing the bad guys tried to perpetrate is actually working on you.

I can call myself Fort Knox Drummie.

And If you were of the same intellect as you have been til now, you might believe that that reinforces my claim that I own Ft. Knox.

 

[Drummie123]

Oof, that's harsh. The struggles in Jewish history are incomparable. The challenges of the region are utterly insolvable. The Israeli state has taken many dubious actions, but the Palestinians are not blameless. They're going to continue killing each other forever. "Peace in the Middle East" is never going to happen; and the US overinvested itself in a lost cause.

It looks like you are half right.

The only way to solve the dispute is for one side to crush the other side completely and even then those who survive will take up the cause.

But every American school child understands that freedom is worth fighting for without regard to the outcome.

You might have been sick the day the story of the Alamo was taught in school.

After the 9/11 attacks, I was too angry and underinformed to appreciate the wisdom of the song that Paul McCartney shared in a telethon to raise funds for the survivors.

Paul McCartney. "Freedom" (official video)
Mar 24, 2012


VItalfil
391 subscribers

"Freedom" is a song written by Paul McCartney in response to the September 11 attacks in 2001. McCartney was in New York City at the time of the attacks and witnessed the event while sitting in a plane parked on the tarmac at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. Sir Paul wanted Americans to help their fellow citizens by buying "Freedom" and donated all proceeds to 9/11 victims. He also wrote anonymous cheques to several New York police officers to help them with medical recovery.

Paul McCartney – vocals, acoustic guitar, bass guitar
Eric Clapton – lead guitar
Rusty Anderson – rhythm guitar
Abe Laboriel, Jr. – drums

America is about freedom.

Supporting the Israeli's desire to live in freedom is the essence of being an American.

And it is what America has done more of than any other nation in the history of mankind.

We don't wish to make the Palestinians slaves or subjects or captives. We want ALL people to be free, but that starts with the Israeli right to be free in their homeland and not the subjects of a harsh and hostile Islamic bigotry.

And if it takes a thousand years before the Israelis are finally free, freedom is worth it.

 

[moon]

Oof, that's harsh. The struggles in Jewish history are incomparable.

Well..... perceptions of ' victimhood ' are a classic component of fascism. Many people suffered the Holocaust, for example- and Jews were fewer than a third of the victims.

The challenges of the region are utterly insolvable.

The Palestinians had a respectable culture until the Zionists invaded them. The invasion is illegal- and it's not impossible to apply the law correctively.

The Israeli state has taken many dubious actions, but the Palestinians are not blameless. They're going to continue killing each other forever.

Blaming the victims ? That dog is past hunting.

 

[Monad Portal]

Your cap key is broken too, huh AssHat?

In any case, if a people call themselves something, that's what makes it their name.

im trans jewish, can I move to israel now?

 

[Drummie123]

Well..... perceptions of ' victimhood ' are a classic component of fascism. Many people suffered the Holocaust, for example- and Jews were fewer than a third of the victims.



The Palestinians had a respectable culture until the Zionists invaded them. The invasion is illegal- and it's not impossible to apply the law correctively.



Blaming the victims ? That dog is past hunting.

Why do Leftists gloss over point four, below?

And why do Conservatives allow them to do it???

The Jews have a legitimate claim to the land, as legitimate, or maybe more so, than that of the Palestinians.

And the Jews are willing to live in peace with the Palestinians, even though the Muslims are actively, aggressively and mortally hostile to the Jews.

If the Israelis were as hostile to the "Pals" as the "Pals" are to the Zionists, you MIGHT have a case for criticizing the Zionists. But they aren't and you don't.

(I use the terms, "Zionists," "Jews" and "Israelis" interchangeably in this regard because the differences are irrelevant.)

Pre-State Israel: Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel
by Mitchell Bard

A common misperception is that the Jews were forced into the diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 A.D. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. A national language and a distinct civilization have been maintained.

The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-claim-to-the-land-of-israel

Anytime one nation militarily conquers another, the aggressor takes the land of the conquered peoples.

That has always been the accepted rule throughout history.

You defeat a neighbor or any land or country and then you make that territory part of your own.

But Israel claims the land in that regard, with an even STRONGER claim.

They were not the aggressors!

They were attacked multiple times by their hostile, bigoted neighbors and each time, they defeated them to not only defend their promised land, but to take some of the aggressor's lands.

The aggressors would have been better off not attacking Israel and they'd have retained their lands which Israel annexed as is their right as the winner of those defensive wars.

To the victor goes the spoils.

to the victor, the spoils
The winner is entitled to all of the rewards, bonuses, or benefits of success. (Also written as "To the victor go/belong the spoils.")

John won the betting pool, so he gets the whole pot of money from those who paid in. To the victor, the spoils!

A lot of other contestants on the singing competition are well worthy of signing a record deal, but only one can win— and to the victor, the spoils!

See also: spoil, to
Farlex Dictionary of Idioms. © 2015 Farlex, Inc, all rights reserved.

to the victor, the spoils or to the victor go the spoils
People say to the victor, the spoils or to the victor go the spoils to mean that the person who wins a competition, fight, etc. can take everything of value.

He believed in the principle of to the victor, the spoils.

Abba - The Winner Takes It All (Official Video)

 

[Diesel]

It looks like you are half right.

The only way to solve the dispute is for one side to crush the other side completely and even then those who survive will take up the cause.

But every American school child understands that freedom is worth fighting for without regard to the outcome.

You might have been sick the day the story of the Alamo was taught in school.

After the 9/11 attacks, I was too angry and underinformed to appreciate the wisdom of the song that Paul McCartney shared in a telethon to raise funds for the survivors.

America is about freedom.

Supporting the Israeli's desire to live in freedom is the essence of being an American.

And it is what America has done more of than any other nation in the history of mankind.

We don't wish to make the Palestinians slaves or subjects or captives. We want ALL people to be free, but that starts with the Israeli right to be free in their homeland and not the subjects of a harsh and hostile Islamic bigotry.

And if it takes a thousand years before the Israelis are finally free, freedom is worth it.

It's never going to happen.

 

[Diesel]

Well..... perceptions of ' victimhood ' are a classic component of fascism. Many people suffered the Holocaust, for example- and Jews were fewer than a third of the victims.



The Palestinians had a respectable culture until the Zionists invaded them. The invasion is illegal- and it's not impossible to apply the law correctively.



Blaming the victims ? That dog is past hunting.

The Holocaust is only one aspect of Jewish history. Those people have been epically fucked since the day they walked out of Africa.

The Israelis have a human right to self governance and physical territory. Unfortunately, there will never be lasting peace in the part of the world where "we" put it.

Frankly, they're all victims. You clearly are more sympathetic to one side than the other, but it simply is unreasonable to say that the Palestinians are victims and the Israelis are not.

 

[moon]

...................

Drummie123, you are so stuffed full of hasbara falsehoods that I don't know where to start. It's just a catalogue of historical errors.

Tell you what- you introduce your misconceptions one at a time and I'll endeavor to put you straight.

First up, your ' Jews have an unbroken connection to Palestine ' False.

In 1920 when the League of Nations created the Palestinian state, it had a population of 700,000, of which about 76,000 were Jews. Almost all of the latter had immigrated in the previous 70 years. In 1850 only 4% of the population had been Jewish. In 1799, Napoleon Bonaparte found only 3,000 Jews. There had been hardly any Jews in Palestine since about 1100 AD.

So not only was there a Palestine, full of hundreds of thousands of people, over millennia, but there was a very long period of near-absence on the part of Jews. This absence was not because of a forcible expulsion. Rather, Jews in Palestine had converted to Christianity, and then many of those converted to Islam.

http://www.juancole.com/2014/04/pictures-refuting-there_was_no_palestine.html

We're talking irrefutable recorded history here not wishful-thinking biblical propaganda.

 

[moon]

The Holocaust is only one aspect of Jewish history. Those people have been epically fucked since the day they walked out of Africa.

The Israelis have a human right to self governance and physical territory. Unfortunately, there will never be lasting peace in the part of the world where "we" put it.

Frankly, they're all victims. You clearly are more sympathetic to one side than the other, but it simply is unreasonable to say that the Palestinians are victims and the Israelis are not.

You only have to look at who invaded who to realise that the Izraelis are criminals and the Palestinians are not. Why waste your time pretending otherwise ?

The Israelis have a human right to self governance and physical territory.

That's only because the United Nations deemed it so in 1947- at the same time as it did precisely the same for Palestinians.

 

[Son of the Revolution]

You only have to look at who invaded who to realise that the Izraelis are criminals and the Palestinians are not. Why waste your time pretending otherwise ?

sad you support terrorists moon aka shilly willy

 

[moon]

Scum of the Revolution

sad you support terrorists moon aka shilly willy

There's no place for you in this discussion, Scum- it's for grown-ups.

 

[Son of the Revolution]

Scum of the Revolution



There's no place for you in this discussion, Scum- it's for grown-ups.

you are now on the list, you fucking pos bigot asshole arab dicksucker

 

[moon]

Scum of the Revolution

you are now on the list, you fucking pos bigot asshole arab dicksucker

Seek an exorcist.



Haw, haw.................................haw.

 

[Diesel]

You only have to look at who invaded who to realise that the Izraelis are criminals and the Palestinians are not. Why waste your time pretending otherwise ?



That's only because the United Nations deemed it so in 1947- at the same time as it did precisely the same for Palestinians.

I don't think that I am wasting my time, clearly. The Palestinians have started or restarted a number of conflicts with the Israelis. The Israelis are just stronger and have American support, so they tend to do a little more than just get even when the Palestinians pull some shit.

The UN did make the problem worse, not better. The UN also can't enforce a single thing unless the permanent members of the Security Council let it. As I continue to say in this thread, neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis deserve all the blame nor all the sympathy for an intractable conflict that is as old as the Iron Age that has no hope of ever being even partially solved during the lifetimes of every human now living.

Let them blow each other up. We have never been able to stop them. We have more pressing domestic needs.

 

[Diesel]

sad you support terrorists moon aka shilly willy

So do you.

 

[Diesel]

Scum of the Revolution



There's no place for you in this discussion, Scum- it's for grown-ups.

Now that I agree with 100%. That Revolution cunt is a complete waste of time.

 

[moon]

I don't think that I am wasting my time, clearly. The Palestinians have started or restarted a number of conflicts with the Israelis. The Israelis are just stronger and have American support, so they tend to do a little more than just get even when the Palestinians pull some shit.

The First and Second Intifadas were both started by Izrael and the Izraelis started this recent conflagration. There are several threads here which chronicle the events leading up to the Hamas use of rockets. Maybe you think that Izraeli murder of Palestinians, using stun grenades, rubber bullets and sewage sprays against the Al Aqsa mosque and people in their own homes doesn't count. Maybe you think that dragging women out of their houses by their hair and giving their homes to Jews isn't important nor provocative. Remember, these war crimes took place in Palestine. Hamas was elected by a landslide in 2006.

The UN did make the problem worse, not better. The UN also can't enforce a single thing unless the permanent members of the Security Council let it. As I continue to say in this thread, neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis deserve all the blame nor all the sympathy for an intractable conflict that is as old as the Iron Age that has no hope of ever being even partially solved during the lifetimes of every human now living.

That's not entirely correct. If the Security Council fails to act against a major emergency then it can be overridden by a General Assembly vote.

Let them blow each other up. We have never been able to stop them. We have more pressing domestic needs.

No, we don't. There is nothing so important, in this age of nuclear weaponry, as peace and respect for the UN.