A mortal blow to Young Earth creationism

[Into the Night]

My point is, an atheist said that in a post, said it was a set of beliefs!

He is not not atheist. He believes in the Church of No God. He is also attempting to speak for all Christians. Only a few fundamentalist types believe the Earth is a mere 6000 years old.

The length of time required to create the Earth and everything in it is unknown. In Hebrew, 'day' can mean any length of time.
The length of time Adam and Eve spent in the Garden of Eden is unknown. For all we know, it could have been many thousands or even billions of years. Remember there was no death during that time.

Anyone claiming to know the age of the Earth is guessing. It is a religious claim.

 

[Into the Night]

Sailor's just funnin' with you. Obviously attitudes don't change that fast. They grow in one direction or the other like the "Do you believe in ghosts" polls
over time.


Without a recent poll it's logical to know two points define a line and three points a trend. Human trends take years to shift unless something catastrophic happens like WWII or 9/11. Sure, such things are not guaranteed, but if a football team is consistently kicking ass or going against someone they've tromped earlier in the season, it's logical to bet they'll do it in the next game.

Here's some polls. I'm open to looking at any polls people care to offer.

2019
https://today.yougov.com/topics/lif...9/10/21/paranormal-beliefs-ghosts-demons-poll
45%

2017
https://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/ghosttoplines.pdf
45%


2005
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-majority-believe-in-ghosts/
Halloween poll does show that the American public's belief in ghosts and witches has increased substantially since the question was first asked in 1978. Currently, 31% of American adults say they believe in ghosts, and 22% say they believe in witches. In 1978, just 11% of the public said they believed in ghosts and the same percentage said they believed in witches.

Polls don't mean anything. You are making up numbers again.

 

[Wolverine]

He is not not atheist. He believes in the Church of No God. He is also attempting to speak for all Christians. Only a few fundamentalist types believe the Earth is a mere 6000 years old.

The length of time required to create the Earth and everything in it is unknown. In Hebrew, 'day' can mean any length of time.
The length of time Adam and Eve spent in the Garden of Eden is unknown. For all we know, it could have been many thousands or even billions of years. Remember there was no death during that time.

Anyone claiming to know the age of the Earth is guessing. It is a religious claim.

No proof for an old Earth! I do not claim to know the age of the earth! I am saying their dating methods are flawed.

 

[Micawber]

Young earth creationism.

 

[Cypress]

All you are doing is helping others realize you are an ass!
https://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html

I am not clicking on that link.

You will have to tell me in your own words what point you are trying to make

 

[Cypress]

Sailor's just funnin' with you. Obviously attitudes don't change that fast. They grow in one direction or the other like the "Do you believe in ghosts" polls
over time.


Without a recent poll it's logical to know two points define a line and three points a trend. Human trends take years to shift unless something catastrophic happens like WWII or 9/11. Sure, such things are not guaranteed, but if a football team is consistently kicking ass or going against someone they've tromped earlier in the season, it's logical to bet they'll do it in the next game.

Here's some polls. I'm open to looking at any polls people care to offer.

2019
https://today.yougov.com/topics/lif...9/10/21/paranormal-beliefs-ghosts-demons-poll
45%

2017
https://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/ghosttoplines.pdf
45%


2005
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-majority-believe-in-ghosts/
Halloween poll does show that the American public's belief in ghosts and witches has increased substantially since the question was first asked in 1978. Currently, 31% of American adults say they believe in ghosts, and 22% say they believe in witches. In 1978, just 11% of the public said they believed in ghosts and the same percentage said they believed in witches.

For sure, religious and social attitudes do not change rapidly. I doubt Gallup even conducts their creationism poll annually, every year for that very reason.

I am surprised more Americans believe in ghosts than in the 1970s. I think there is a Master's thesis in sociology hiding in that data!

 

[Into the Night]

Why use the word day?

'Day' and 'period' are the same word in Hebrew.

This is the problem with any language translation. The words may translate, but the idioms do not.
A great example of this was with translating software between English and Japanese. Taking the phrase "Out of sight, out of mind", and translating it to Japanese and back again, you get the result "invisible idiot". It is correct, but also not the expected meaning.

When King James ordered the various books of what became the Bible translated, the translators did as they were told, but of course the usual meaning in Hebrew for 'day' is the 24 hour day. No one knew then how long it took to create the Earth. Further, there is NO information for how long Adam and Eve spent in the Garden of Eden.

So various fundamentalist types use the 24 hour day for this translation, and consider that in and of itself a proof (incorrectly of course).

As the Bible was translated and re-translated many times, further distortions crept in. Some by accident, some intentionally.

Personally, I consider the King James version to be the most reasonably accurate. You can't treat it like a detailed contract or lawbook, but you can treat the message and histories it describes as a whole.

I consider God to be a real person, not some shapeless form. I consider Jesus Christ to be His Son (just as we all are, but Christ lived without sin and could pay for our sins for us. Christ sacrificed Himself to save us from the penalty we would otherwise have to reconcile before God ourselves (we can't).

I consider Satan to be a real person. There was no talking snake. He is simply described as one for what he did. He has an office and purpose designated by God. Satan's purpose is to tempt us. Only through that do we have the freedom to choose for ourselves. We would not know hot if there were no cold. We would not know kindness if there were no misery. We can't even appreciate the value of life without death in the world.

Remember that one must look past the confines of this world to see the path of God, and why He does what He does.

The Bible is evidence only. It is not a proof of any kind (other than that it exists, known as the Proof of Identity). Nothing in the Bible proves whether God or even Christ even existed at all. It MUST be taken on faith. That is the circular argument that is the basis of any religion.

 

[Cypress]

Yet a non Christian started this thread as an affront to Christians, you are not a victim when you question, or make flase statements about Christianity, and Christians respond, you people are so hilarious!

You have no idea what my personal belief system is, and it is a fact that educated, 21st christians tend to dismiss young Earth creationist fundamentalists as crackpots.

One does not have to be atheist to laugh at Young Earth creationism.

 

[Into the Night]

I already did, Sybil. How do you think I know so much about you? Why do you think I keep pushing people to read your "not a fake forum, dumbass"?


We? You mean you, yourself and Irene?

You are a liar. You are not on the membership list. You think I can't check that???

 

[Into the Night]

Why not believe God gave us brains and expected us to use them?

Why not believe that God gave us dominion over the Earth and expected us to act responsibly like a parent giving their adolescent son a car?

Heh. It is actually a bit like that. Yes, we are going to wreck the car from time to time. We eventually learn responsibility from that. We cannot harm the Earth to the point of destroying it. We simply don't have that power. We certainly can fuck up though, and we do!

 

[Into the Night]

No proof for an old Earth! I do not claim to know the age of the earth! I am saying their dating methods are flawed.

So do I. We agree.

 

[Nordberg]

No proof for an old Earth! I do not claim to know the age of the earth! I am saying their dating methods are flawed.

Here they are. https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/how-did-scientists-calculate-age-earth/ Now tell us how they are wrong.
The 6000 years was determined by Bishop Ussher using the bible and his guesses. Now that is not scientific.

 

[Into the Night]

I am not clicking on that link.

You will have to tell me in your own words what point you are trying to make

I tend to require this of anybody. Quoting Holy Links is only cutting a pasting at best, and only shows that one has no mind of their own.

 

[Into the Night]

Here they are. https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/how-did-scientists-calculate-age-earth/ Now tell us how they are wrong.
The 6000 years was determined by Bishop Ussher using the bible and his guesses. Now that is not scientific.

Science is a set of falsifiable theories, not guesses.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes. The fact you dodged my question makes you disingenuous, Sybil. If I didn't know you were mentally ill, I'd be mad at you.

Psychoquackery. You are mad at me. Your post shows it. Nothing but insults. Inversion fallacy. You are dodging my question.

So do you believe that so-called 'dinosaur bones' actually come from dinosaurs?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Nope. It's lack of one. "a" = without. "theist" = believer in deity(ies).

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one: to some, yes, it's clearly a religion. Anyone who proselytizes "disbelief" is a religious.

Absence of evidence is not absence of evidence. Those who claim it is are pushing a belief.

I don't give a shit what faith they are selling, it's a belief, not fact or logic.

In this case, We, humanity, don't have a fucking clue where there is other life in this universe much less if physical reality is the only reality, meaning "form of existence".

The only logical position is "I don't know". Go one iota away from that fact and it's a belief.

Or produce some facts. I like facts...I also like turtles but that's another story.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Psychoquackery. You are mad at me. Your post shows it. Nothing but insults. Inversion fallacy. You are dodging my question.

So do you believe that so-called 'dinosaur bones' actually come from dinosaurs?

Why do you think my post proves I'm angry at you?

You're free to dodge all the questions you like, Sybil. Nobody can make you believe anything you don't want to believe.

As for dinosaurs, the evidence seems clear to me. Why do you think they are faked?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am not clicking on that link.

You will have to tell me in your own words what point you are trying to make

I did. It looks like someone's paper who didn't get his Master's degree. LOL

Here's the larger data base:
https://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating.html

 

[Dutch Uncle]

For sure, religious and social attitudes do not change rapidly. I doubt Gallup even conducts their creationism poll annually, every year for that very reason.

I am surprised more Americans believe in ghosts than in the 1970s. I think there is a Master's thesis in sociology hiding in that data!

It is an odd transition from the nation that put mankind on the Moon to shift over to "The Moon landing was faked" and other anti-science beliefs.

Is it any wonder that those who are anti-science end up in the lower end of the economic scale?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You are a liar. You are not on the membership list. You think I can't check that???

I have socks like you, Sybil. Everyone has them. Do you really believe you don't have an FBI bot on your membership list monitoring for keywords like #jihad, #assassination, #bombing or phrases linked to violent people?

Phrases can be encoded in pictures and those are monitored too. If it's on your website, it's noticed. Obviously you are protected to some extent by our American rights.