Elon Musk just became world's first TRILLIONAIRE.

Ross Dolan

Well-known member
Contributor

And the wealth gap just got greater.

Currently the top 1% of families own one-third of the total wealth of our nation...and the top 10% of families own two-thirds of the total wealth of our nation.

The MAGA morons arguing for government to stay out of the issue must think that people like Trump will voluntarily stop trying to accumulate more of the wealth of the nation.

Gotta wonder what percentage of the total wealth will have to be owned by what percentage of the population before something is done to curb the dynamic.

My guess: The MAGA morons will say that the wealth will grow...and the problem is not a problem.

Fucking idiots.
 

And the wealth gap just got greater.

Currently the top 1% of families own one-third of the total wealth of our nation...and the top 10% of families own two-thirds of the total wealth of our nation.

The MAGA morons arguing for government to stay out of the issue must think that people like Trump will voluntarily stop trying to accumulate more of the wealth of the nation.

Gotta wonder what percentage of the total wealth will have to be owned by what percentage of the population before something is done to curb the dynamic.

My guess: The MAGA morons will say that the wealth will grow...and the problem is not a problem.


Fucking idiots.
With respect, I'm going to assume you're using MAGA as short hand because there are non-MAGA people who are free market supporters. And even among Democrats, the party supported Clinton and Biden over Bernie.

I don't want to assume anything but I don't believe you are saying SpaceX wouldn't have gone through with this IPO if Biden or Harris was President.
 

And the wealth gap just got greater.

Currently the top 1% of families own one-third of the total wealth of our nation...and the top 10% of families own two-thirds of the total wealth of our nation.

The MAGA morons arguing for government to stay out of the issue must think that people like Trump will voluntarily stop trying to accumulate more of the wealth of the nation.

Gotta wonder what percentage of the total wealth will have to be owned by what percentage of the population before something is done to curb the dynamic.

My guess: The MAGA morons will say that the wealth will grow...and the problem is not a problem.

Fucking idiots.
Nothing will be done because those acquiring the wealth are slowly taking over the Government and other centers of power, the US is moving from a plutocracy on to a full oligarchy
 
Nothing will be done because those acquiring the wealth are slowly taking over the Government and other centers of power, the US is moving from a plutocracy on to a full oligarchy
Yup...and will complete that "journey" if government does not act to curb things. I acknowledge that I am not smart enough to suggest what must be done, but there are MUCH, MUCH sharper minds than mine tha t can be put to use in solving this existential problem.

We have got to do it, Archives. And we have got to do it now.
 

And the wealth gap just got greater. Currently the top 1% of families own one-third of the total wealth of our nation...and the top 10% of families own two-thirds of the total wealth of our nation. The MAGA morons arguing for government to stay out of the issue must think that people like Trump will voluntarily stop trying to accumulate more of the wealth of the nation. Gotta wonder what percentage of the total wealth will have to be owned by what percentage of the population before something is done to curb the dynamic. My guess: The MAGA morons will say that the wealth will grow...and the problem is not a problem. Fucking idiots.

The data on concentration is roughly accurate, but the framing and implied solutions need scrutiny.

Facts on US wealth distribution​


Federal Reserve Distributional Financial Accounts show that as of recent quarters (around 2024-2025), the top 1% holds about 30-31% of total household wealth, and the top 10% holds roughly 67-70%. The bottom 50% holds ~2.5%. This has become more concentrated since the 1980s-1990s, driven heavily by asset appreciation (stocks, real estate, business equity) that disproportionately benefits owners of capital.

This isn't new or purely "MAGA" dynamics—it's a long-term trend tied to economic shifts: tech/globalization winners-take-most markets, financialization, lower inflation in goods but asset inflation, and yes, policy (tax treatment of capital gains, etc.).

Total wealth has grown massively; even the bottom has seen absolute gains in many periods, but relative shares shifted upward.

Wealth isn't zero-sum​


The critique assumes fixed "total wealth of the nation" that elites hoard, with Trump types refusing to "stop accumulating."

This is a classic error.

Wealth is created through productivity, innovation, trade, and investment—not just redistributed slices of a pie.

  • Absolute mobility: Most metrics show broad gains in living standards, life expectancy (pre-COVID trends), tech access, etc., over decades. The pie grew.
  • Stock ownership: Top holders benefit from market gains, but millions participate via 401(k)s, pensions, and home equity. The bottom 50% has little stock, which explains part of the gap.
  • Entrepreneurship and returns: High returns to skill, scale, and risk (tech, finance) explain a lot of the top concentration. Suppressing that voluntarily or via heavy mandates often shrinks the pie (see historical experiments with heavy redistribution or price controls).
Blaming "MAGA morons" for opposing intervention ignores that both parties have contributed to cronyism (bailouts, subsidies, regulatory barriers favoring incumbents).

Trump isn't a consistent small-government guy; he's transactional on tariffs, spending, etc.

But the core classical-liberal/small-government view isn't "let billionaires hoard"—it's that voluntary exchange, property rights, and limited government interference best generate broad prosperity over time.

Evidence from growth economics: countries with better economic freedom tend to have higher mobility and rising floors despite inequality.

Mobility and dynamics​


Wealth/income mobility exists but is imperfect:

  • Intergenerational: US rates are lower than Nordic countries but not frozen. Education, family stability, and avoiding bad choices matter hugely. Parental income predicts ~30-50% of child outcomes on average; extremes are stickier.
  • High inequality correlates with lower mobility in some studies ("Great Gatsby Curve"), but causation is tricky—human capital, culture, and policy (e.g., zoning, education quality) drive both.
  • Many in the top 1% are not static; turnover occurs via new industries. "The wealthy" include entrepreneurs whose assets fluctuate.
Government "curbing the dynamic" has trade-offs:
  • Redistribution (transfers, progressive taxes) reduces measured inequality and can help safety nets, but large-scale attempts often blunt incentives, slow growth, create dependency, or get captured (see efficiency costs in econ literature). Transfers reduce Gini more reliably than taxes alone.
  • Historical US wealth inequality was high in the Gilded Age, fell mid-century (wars, unions, policy), then rose with globalization/tech.
  • Better levers for opportunity: human capital (skills, education reform—not just spending), reducing barriers to entry (occupational licensing, housing regs), stable families, and sound macro policy. Heavy focus on punishing success often fails to raise the floor sustainably.
Calling opponents "fucking idiots" for believing wealth grows and markets allocate better than central planners is tribal, not analytical.

Inequality is real and worth tracking (envy, instability risks), but conflating it with poverty ignores absolute progress.

Solutions should target roots—bad incentives, cronyism, skill gaps—rather than assuming government coercion fixes "the dynamic" without costs.

Data shows concentration, but causation, ethics, and remedies are contested for good reason.
 
Nothing will be done because those acquiring the wealth are slowly taking over the Government and other centers of power, the US is moving from a plutocracy on to a full oligarchy

The "oligarchy" claim captures real influence imbalances but overstates the case as an inevitable, total takeover.

Evidence of elite influence​


The influential 2014 Gilens-Page study analyzed ~1,779 policy issues (1981–2002) and found that preferences of economic elites (top ~10%) and organized business interests had substantial independent effects on policy outcomes, while average citizens' preferences had near-zero statistical impact when controlling for those factors.

This supports "economic-elite domination" or "biased pluralism" models over pure majoritarian democracy.

Later critiques (e.g., Bashir 2015) note methodological issues: the model may underestimate median voter impact, and descriptive data shows average Americans get preferred outcomes roughly as often as elites in direct disagreements.


Modern data reinforces money's role:

  • Campaign finance: 2024 cycle saw record spending (~$16B+ total), with massive super PAC/dark money flows. Billionaires and industries (crypto, tech, finance) poured hundreds of millions; e.g., Elon Musk's outsized role, pro-crypto PACs, etc. Both parties benefit.
  • Lobbying: Billions annually, dominated by corporations. Revolving door between government, K Street, and industry.
  • Wealth concentration: Top 1% ~30%+ wealth aligns with ability to fund think tanks, media, campaigns, and litigation. Public perception: many view rich political influence as a driver of inequality.

This isn't new—Gilded Age, railroad barons, etc.—but scale grew with globalization, tech winners, and post-Citizens United rules.

Policy often favors incumbents (tax code, IP, bailouts, zoning).


Counterpoints: Not a full oligarchy​


  • Elections still matter: Voters oust incumbents, shift parties (2016, 2020, 2024), and force responsiveness on salient issues (e.g., trade, immigration, inflation). Median voter theorem holds in many models; politicians court broad coalitions.
  • Pluralism and competition: Elites aren't monolithic. Tech vs. finance vs. energy; left-leaning billionaires (Hollywood, Silicon Valley pre-realignment) vs. others. Public opinion, courts, states, media, and civil society constrain. Mass movements (populism left/right) disrupt.
  • Democracy metrics: US ranks as a flawed but consolidated democracy (e.g., V-Dem, Freedom House). Turnout, referenda, primaries, and federalism provide avenues. Absolute power concentration (e.g., one-party rule, suppressed opposition) doesn't match Russia/China-style oligarchy.
  • Causation flows both ways: Policy shapes wealth (e.g., deregulation, tech antitrust laxity, education failures), but wealth also shapes policy. Growth, innovation, and human capital drive much concentration—not pure capture.

Critics of the oligarchy narrative argue it downplays voter agency, cultural factors, and how broad-based growth (even unequal) lifted living standards. Heavy "curbs" risk elite capture of the curbing mechanism itself (regulatory state often favors connected players).


Realistic assessment​


The US is a republic with oligarchic tendencies—a hybrid where dispersed voting power coexists with concentrated economic/political influence.

Wealth buys access and agenda-setting, tilting outcomes, especially on low-salience technical issues. But "slowly taking over...full oligarchy" implies irreversible elite monopoly unresponsive to elections.

Evidence shows friction, backlash (populist surges), and non-zero public leverage.


Fixes worth debating: campaign finance transparency/reform, reducing barriers to entry (occupational licensing, housing), better civic education, antitrust for concentrated markets, and policies boosting broad human capital/mobility over pure redistribution.

Tribal fatalism ("nothing will be done") ignores that voters and competitors among elites keep the system contested.

Data shows influence skew, not total subjugation.
 
Way past. We are in fascism.

"Fascism" is a severe misapplication here. The term has a specific historical meaning that doesn't describe the United States.

What fascism actually was​


Fascism, as originated by Benito Mussolini in 1920s Italy (and variants like Nazism), featured:

  • Totalitarian one-party state: Dictatorial leader, dissolution of opposition parties, parliaments reduced to rubber stamps.
  • Suppression of dissent: Mass arrests, censorship, secret police (OVRA/Gestapo), elimination of free press and independent judiciary.
  • Corporatist economy: State-directed private enterprise fused with regime goals, no genuine market competition.
  • Ultranationalism + militarism: Glorification of war, expansionism, cult of violence and hierarchy.
  • Rejection of liberalism: Anti-democratic, anti-individual rights, subordination of person to the state ("Everything within the state, nothing outside").

These regimes seized power amid post-WWI chaos, banned rivals, and used paramilitaries to consolidate total control. Historians emphasize this as revolutionary authoritarianism of the right, distinct from mere conservatism, populism, or oligarchy.

US reality in 2026​


  • Elections and institutions: Competitive elections occurred (2024). Power transfers (however contentious), independent courts (which have checked executives repeatedly across administrations), Congress, states, and federalism remain operational. No one-party monopoly or suspension of the Constitution.
  • Speech and press: Vigorous, polarized debate continues. Outlets criticize the government daily; protests occur (with incidents of overreach on both sides). First Amendment protections are among the world's strongest, though government jawboning, platform pressures, and threats persist—as they did previously.
  • Political violence: Rising threats, assassinations (e.g., high-profile cases in 2025), and harassment from fringes in recent data. This is dangerous and erodes norms, but it's decentralized/self-radicalized, not state-orchestrated mass terror. Levels are elevated vs. recent decades but far below historical peaks (1970s) or true fascist states.
  • Economy and power: Still market-oriented with crony elements (across parties). Wealth concentration and elite influence exist, but not full state corporatism.

The US is a republic with populist-authoritarian trends building over years (both parties' expansions of surveillance, regulation, spending, and cultural enforcement).

Hyperbole like "We are in fascism" dilutes the term, ignores countervailing forces (elections, courts, civil society), and fuels the very tribalism that weakens resilience.
 

And the wealth gap just got greater.

Currently the top 1% of families own one-third of the total wealth of our nation...and the top 10% of families own two-thirds of the total wealth of our nation.

The MAGA morons arguing for government to stay out of the issue must think that people like Trump will voluntarily stop trying to accumulate more of the wealth of the nation.

Gotta wonder what percentage of the total wealth will have to be owned by what percentage of the population before something is done to curb the dynamic.

My guess: The MAGA morons will say that the wealth will grow...and the problem is not a problem.


Fucking idiots.
I wish these rich fucks, paid their fair of taxes?!! The whole country suffers when they don't?!!

Tax the Rich: An animated fairy tale

 

And the wealth gap just got greater.

Currently the top 1% of families own one-third of the total wealth of our nation...and the top 10% of families own two-thirds of the total wealth of our nation.

The MAGA morons arguing for government to stay out of the issue must think that people like Trump will voluntarily stop trying to accumulate more of the wealth of the nation.

Gotta wonder what percentage of the total wealth will have to be owned by what percentage of the population before something is done to curb the dynamic.

My guess: The MAGA morons will say that the wealth will grow...and the problem is not a problem.


Fucking idiots.
Cool,...good for him! Well done Elon,...
 
I am a supporter of success,...for ANYONE. I am also a supporter of capitalism,....for all of us. GREATEST system in the world,...not even a close second.
Not an answer. Why does Musk having more money than you give you pleasure?
 
I wish these rich fucks, paid their fair of taxes?!! The whole country suffers when they don't?!!



The claim that "rich fucks" like Elon Musk aren't paying their "fair share" and that this causes the country to suffer is a common rhetorical framing, but it doesn't hold up well against the data on who actually funds the government.

US tax system is already highly progressive​

  • Top 1%: Earn ~22-26% of adjusted gross income (AGI) but pay ~38-40%+ of all federal individual income taxes (latest IRS data for recent years). Their average effective federal income tax rate is around 23-26%, far above the overall average (~14-15%).
  • Top 10%: Pay ~70-72% of income taxes.
  • Bottom 50%: Earn ~11-12% of AGI but pay only ~3% of federal income taxes, with effective rates often under 4%.
When including all federal taxes (income, payroll, corporate, excise), the top still shoulders a disproportionate load relative to population. The system is progressive by design—higher earners face higher marginal rates (top bracket 37% in 2025) plus capital gains/dividends taxes.

Elon Musk specifically​

Musk's wealth is mostly illiquid stock in Tesla, SpaceX, etc.

Unrealized capital gains aren't taxed until sold (a feature of income—not wealth—tax systems worldwide).
  • In 2021, he paid over $11 billion in taxes after exercising options and selling Tesla stock—one of the largest single-year payments in history.
  • Tesla (his company) has used legal deductions, credits (e.g., R&D, EV incentives), and losses in some years to report low or zero corporate federal income tax on accounting profits—common for growth/tech firms reinvesting heavily. This doesn't mean Musk personally pays nothing.
  • Over time, Musk has generated massive tax revenue indirectly: Tesla/SpaceX/X employees' payroll/income taxes, suppliers, and economic activity.
Critics focus on low effective rates in years with no realizations or heavy deductions/loss carryforwards (legal under current code). But this ignores timing—billionaires pay enormous sums on realizations and fund huge growth.

Does non-payment by the rich cause suffering?​

No. The US collects record tax revenue (individual income taxes ~50%+ of federal revenue). Deficits and "suffering" (debt, inflation, service strains) stem primarily from spending growth outpacing revenue—not rich evasion.

The top already subsidizes transfers, infrastructure, defense, etc., far beyond their population share.

Arguments for higher "fair share" often shift the goalposts: from income taxes (progressive) to including unrealized gains or wealth taxes (which face constitutional, administrative, and growth problems—see capital flight or valuation fights elsewhere).

High taxes can blunt incentives for risk-taking/innovation that created Musk-level value (jobs, tech progress, tax base expansion).

The country benefits from productive rich people building companies. Punitive focus on "rich fucks" ignores that the bottom 50% pay little income tax while receiving substantial net transfers. F

airness debates are legitimate on policy (e.g., closing specific loopholes, base-broadening), but the data shows the system already extracts heavily from high earners.

The "whole country suffers" line better fits unchecked spending and poor allocation than tax contributions from the wealthy.
 
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