The Meaning of It All: Ultimate Meaning, Everyday Meaning, Cosmic Meaning, Death, and Time

H

Hume

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"On Cosmic Meaning, Weinberg’s discussion often reminded me of Hume’s writing when he makes fun of religious claims about miracles. CM, she shows, is much overrated. She is particularly effective when employing them while exploring the suggested “happy endings” of life; for example, exploring the idea of partaking in divine bliss or in a life of contemplation, in terms of purpose and value.
'So if our cosmic purpose is communion [with God], what happens when we achieve it? Do we just bask in its glow, sizzle in its warmth? As with happiness, that emotional state of feeling closeness does not, by itself, seem very meaningful.'

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The Meaning of It All: Ultimate Meaning, Everyday Meaning, Cosmic Meaning, Death, and Time

Isaiah Berlin explained his move from philosophy to the history of ideas through the desire to know more at the end of his career than at the beginning. He was…
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There is no meaning to life, there is no purpose to existence. One just does. It is up to the individual to provide "meaning" such as it can be found.

Ultimately in a couple million years even the memory of humanity and all we came up with and "know" will be null and void and lost to the aether.

If there is a great "filter" and we are alone in the universe once we're gone all of this is gone too. All this thinking, doing, being...all just gone.

It's kinda sobering to think how meaningless it all is. Except it isn't really. We have the time we are here to do with what we want to do. That should be enough. Even just to live on in the memories of others, but it's not enough for most people.

Like the Cure says:

"It doesn't mean there has to be a way of things
No special sense that hidden hands are pulling strings
But living on in others, in memories and dreams
Is not enough
And it never is
You always want so much more than this"

 
I think the question of meaning is important. Is it just individual? Is it shared? Do we learn what is meaningful, like religion, and then toss it off?
 
"Weinberg’s discussion takes away the majestic aspirations of ultimacy, the grand scheme of things, to the mundane issues of taking care of our children and deciding whether to take up painting."

^ A privileged first-world perspective written by someone who lives in an affluent country, with law enforcement, functioning courts, and dynamic free market economies.

Most human beings aren't in a position to take their daughter to ballet lessons, enroll in painting classes, or volunteer for save-the-spotted owl wildlife conservation campaigns.
 
Cypress said:
"Weinberg’s discussion takes away the majestic aspirations of ultimacy, the grand scheme of things, to the mundane issues of taking care of our children and deciding whether to take up painting."

^ A privileged first-world perspective written by someone who lives in an affluent country, with law enforcement, functioning courts, and dynamic free market economies.

Most human beings aren't in a position to take their daughter to ballet lessons, enroll in painting classes, or volunteer for save-the-spotted owl wildlife conservation campaigns.
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So?
 
Cypress said:
I don't think you can tell people in Sudan or in North Korean political prisoner camps to forget about any greater meaning and just try to find purpose in painting classes and bird watching.
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Not the point.
But what does ultimate meaning, or cosmic meaning, do to help people in a civil war? God will help us?!
 
Hume said:
But what does ultimate meaning, or cosmic meaning, do to help people in a civil war?
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Our Declaration of Independence explicitly justifies a revolt against Britain on the backdrop of a deeper universal eternal meaning expressed through natural rights, human freedom, equality, human dignity.
 
Cypress said:
Our Declaration of Independence explicitly justifies a revolt against Britain on the backdrop of a deeper universal eternal meaning expressed through natural rights, human freedom, equality, human dignity.
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A document with no legal consequence.
 
Hume said:
A document with no legal consequence.
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As an idea the Declaration of Independence galvanized and coalesced patriots around a deeper universal meaning about freedom, liberty, natural rights.

I don't think a credible argument can be made that the iconic language and universal ideas expressed in the Declaration was completely irrelevant and ineffective to the revolution and ultimately to the evolution of American ideals.
 
Cypress said:
As an idea the Declaration of Independence galvanized and coalesced patriots around a deeper universal meaning about freedom, liberty, natural rights.

I don't think a credible argument can be made that the iconic language and ideas expressed in the Declaration was completely irrelevant and ineffective to the revolution and the evolution of American ideals.
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I think it was. Freedom from a foreign government has nothing to do with morality or religion.
 
Hume said:
I think it was. Freedom from a foreign government has nothing to do with morality or religion.
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I was responding to the essay "On Meaning.". I didn't refer to organized religion or morality.

Any concept of ultimate or higher Meaning can include ideals like liberty, freedom, equality, natural rights. Jefferson thought these ideals were universal, meaningful, and endowed.
 
Cypress said:
Our Declaration of Independence explicitly justifies a revolt against Britain on the backdrop of a deeper universal eternal meaning expressed through natural rights, human freedom, equality, human dignity.
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Little of which we ACTUALLY believe as a country nor have we ever
 
murph63 said:
Little of which we ACTUALLY believe as a country nor have we ever
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The past five thousand years of human history has been an incremental and uneven trajectory towards ever more liberty, ever more freedom, ever more equality, and ever more desire and opportunity to pursue happiness.

So obviously these values are universal aspirational ideals for almost all humans who aren't criminals or psychopaths.
 
Cypress said:
The past five thousand years of human history has been an incremental and uneven trajectory towards ever more liberty, ever more freedom, ever more equality, and ever more desire and opportunity to pursue happiness.

So obviously these values are universal aspirational ideals for almost all humans who aren't criminals or psychopaths.
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Ideals yes but not Americans ideals lived
 
Cypress said:
I don't think you can tell people in Sudan or in North Korean political prisoner camps to forget about any greater meaning and just try to find purpose in taking painting classes, joining book clubs, and bird watching.
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same principle of why liberal arts degrees are losing value.
 
Cypress said:
The past five thousand years of human history has been an incremental and uneven trajectory towards ever more liberty, ever more freedom, ever more equality, and ever more desire and opportunity to pursue happiness.

So obviously these values are universal aspirational ideals for almost all humans who aren't criminals or psychopaths.
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Now we have fascism. Again.
 
murph63 said:
Ideals yes but not Americans ideals lived
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The ideal of liberty, freedom, equality, the pursuit of happiness brings meaning to normal people's lives, whether they have achieved it or not. Aleksandr Navalny and Nelson Mandela rotted in prison but were sustained by the meaningful natural law ideals of liberty, equality, and freedom.

That whole thing about enrolling in painting classes and joining book clubs is nonsense that only applies to the affluent leisure class.
 
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