Reality check on electric cars

QP! said:

Here is the final point you cannot refute.

the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use.

Of that vast majority only a tiny percent will NEED or WANT to drive the very rural routes you can hand craft to make an EV struggle, and ALL THE ELSE, can use an EV with no issues.

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Actually, the vast majority of Americans don't want an EV of any sort.

Less than 20% of U.S. adults are “likely” to get an EV as their next car, says AAA.​

Many EV buyers have ditched their EV and returned to driving an ICE vehicle too



The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 30% of American Adults say it’s likely that their next automobile purchase will be an electric car – down from 40% in July 2024 – with just 10% saying it’s Very Likely. Sixty-three percent (63%) aren’t likely to make an EV their next automobile purchase, including 38% who say it’s Not At All Likely.


Short of the government forcing EV's down the public's throats by dictatorial laws and edicts, EV's are not going to even break 20% of the market and probably are likely to say around 10% or less.

T. A. Gardner said:

Actually, the vast majority of Americans don't want an EV of any sort.

Less than 20% of U.S. adults are “likely” to get an EV as their next car, says AAA.​

Why Aren't Americans Buying EVs? AAA Survey Uncovers Key Hesitations

Despite the buzz, a new AAA survey reveals surprising reasons why many Americans are hesitant about buying electric vehicles. Dive into the data and uncover the real barriers to EV adoption.

www.autoblog.com

Most Americans still not sold on EVs despite push from Biden, poll finds

Lack of easy-to-find charging stations continues to be a major reason why many adults do not purchase electric vehicles.

www.cbsnews.com

Many EV buyers have ditched their EV and returned to driving an ICE vehicle too

Most Americans still don't want an electric car — and many EV buyers end up going back to gas

A new poll suggests that a majority of Americans aren't interested in giving up gasoline quite yet.

www.businessinsider.com

Remember When EVs Were the Future? Americans Don’t Really Want Them Anymore

Automakers are shifting their focus to their plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles for the foreseeable future.

www.popularmechanics.com

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 30% of American Adults say it’s likely that their next automobile purchase will be an electric car – down from 40% in July 2024 – with just 10% saying it’s Very Likely. Sixty-three percent (63%) aren’t likely to make an EV their next automobile purchase, including 38% who say it’s Not At All Likely.

Most Americans Don’t Expect to Buy EVs

With federal tax credits for electric vehicles set to expire soon, fewer than a third of Americans are in the market for an EV.

www.rasmussenreports.com

Short of the government forcing EV's down the public's throats by dictatorial laws and edicts, EV's are not going to even break 20% of the market and probably are likely to say around 10% or less.

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As you always do when you are losing an argument you try and change the topic. We were not discussing 'want' or 'desire' and WERE discussing your comment that EV's could not be good cars if you commuted outside the city.

and my point refuting that stands.

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Here is the final point you cannot refute.

the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use.

Of that vast majority only a tiny percent will NEED or WANT to drive the very rural routes you can hand craft to make an EV struggle, and ALL THE ELSE, can use an EV with no issues.

QP! said:

As you always do when you are losing an argument you try and change the topic. We were not discussing 'want' or 'desire' and WERE discussing your comment that EV's could not be good cars if you commuted outside the city.

and my point refuting that stands.

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Here is the final point you cannot refute.

the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use.

Of that vast majority only a tiny percent will NEED or WANT to drive the very rural routes you can hand craft to make an EV struggle, and ALL THE ELSE, can use an EV with no issues.

Click to expand...

You claimed "the vast majority of people who live in cites... support EV use." I demonstrated they don't. The vast majority of people in the US don't support EV use or desire to have an EV. At best, a majority are indifferent to EV's. At worst, they're opposed. The support IS NOT THERE.

T. A. Gardner said:

You claimed "the vast majority of people who live in cites... support EV use." I demonstrated they don't. The vast majority of people in the US don't support EV use or desire to have an EV. At best, a majority are indifferent to EV's. At worst, they're opposed. The support IS NOT THERE.

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No i did not you lying sack of crap. You demonstrate you can lie and then point at your lie.

"...the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use...."

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I said the 'the vast majority of CITES support EV use' and you misquote it saying i said the 'vast majority of people support EV use..."

so once again the point you cannot refute...

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the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use.

Of that vast majority only a tiny percent will NEED or WANT to drive the very rural routes you can hand craft to make an EV struggle, and ALL THE ELSE, can use an EV with no issues.

T. A. Gardner said:

Actually, the vast majority of Americans don't want an EV of any sort.

Less than 20% of U.S. adults are “likely” to get an EV as their next car, says AAA.​

Why Aren't Americans Buying EVs? AAA Survey Uncovers Key Hesitations

Despite the buzz, a new AAA survey reveals surprising reasons why many Americans are hesitant about buying electric vehicles. Dive into the data and uncover the real barriers to EV adoption.

www.autoblog.com

Most Americans still not sold on EVs despite push from Biden, poll finds

Lack of easy-to-find charging stations continues to be a major reason why many adults do not purchase electric vehicles.

www.cbsnews.com

Many EV buyers have ditched their EV and returned to driving an ICE vehicle too

Most Americans still don't want an electric car — and many EV buyers end up going back to gas

A new poll suggests that a majority of Americans aren't interested in giving up gasoline quite yet.

www.businessinsider.com

Remember When EVs Were the Future? Americans Don’t Really Want Them Anymore

Automakers are shifting their focus to their plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles for the foreseeable future.

www.popularmechanics.com

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 30% of American Adults say it’s likely that their next automobile purchase will be an electric car – down from 40% in July 2024 – with just 10% saying it’s Very Likely. Sixty-three percent (63%) aren’t likely to make an EV their next automobile purchase, including 38% who say it’s Not At All Likely.

Most Americans Don’t Expect to Buy EVs

With federal tax credits for electric vehicles set to expire soon, fewer than a third of Americans are in the market for an EV.

www.rasmussenreports.com

Short of the government forcing EV's down the public's throats by dictatorial laws and edicts, EV's are not going to even break 20% of the market and probably are likely to say around 10% or less.

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Yeah, they are like you led by the wealthy and energy companies. Stay in the past and drag the country back with you. There were a few companies that were building battery plants until Trump got in office. They stopped. He ended the building of charging stations. It will take time to get back where we were but we lost a lot of time.

QP! said:

No i did not you lying sack of crap. You demonstrate you can lie and then point at your lie.



I said the 'the vast majority of CITES support EV use' and you misquote it saying i said the 'vast majority of people support EV use..."

so once again the point you cannot refute...

-------

the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use.

Of that vast majority only a tiny percent will NEED or WANT to drive the very rural routes you can hand craft to make an EV struggle, and ALL THE ELSE, can use an EV with no issues.

Click to expand...

The reality is that there are next to no EV friendly cities in the US. Even those topping the list are pretty thin on charging stations.


In New York City it's nearly impossible to curbside charge an EV. The city says it's great, users say it sucks.

Nordberg said:

Yeah, they are like you led by the wealthy and energy companies. Stay in the past and drag the country back with you. There were a few companies that were building battery plants until Trump got in office. They stopped. He ended the building of charging stations. It will take time to get back where we were but we lost a lot of time.

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Wrong. He took away the government subsides for doing those things. The companies doing them immediately recognized they were no longer profitable to them to do and stopped. The only way to make those things work is for the government to heavily subsidize them forever.

T. A. Gardner said:

The reality is that there are next to no EV friendly cities in the US. Even those topping the list are pretty thin on charging stations.

https://www.iseecars.com/ev-chargers-study

In New York City it's nearly impossible to curbside charge an EV. The city says it's great, users say it sucks.

NYC DOT - Electric Vehicles

NYC’s Curbside EV Charging Pilot Shows Strong Demand and Reliability, but Community Concerns Persist, Q3 2025 Report Finds - EVinfo.net

NYC's experiment in curbside EV charging is delivering evidence that on-street charging can play a central role in urban electrification.

evinfo.net

EV Charging May Be Curbside, but Reliability Remains a Concern

A new report on the electric vehicle charging experience suggests 1 in 3 first attempts at charging still fail — even as operators eye more inventive approaches to raise its availability and convenience.

www.govtech.com

Study: NYC’s Curbside EV Chargers are Often Blocked - Black Car News

Consolidated Edison (Con Ed) reported that electric vehicle (EV) curbside charger usage has been exponentially higher than anticipated. Despite the fact

www.blackcarnews.com

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and yet i know a lot of people with EV's in NYC and Toronto and Vancouver downtowns and a few other major cities i used to travel a ton and once they bought their first EV's they were never going back.

The VAST majority of people living in cities commute is from Home, to work, while dropping kids at school, and maybe hitting a grocery store on the way home, all done at the charge they got at their home.

That makes up the BULK of miles people drive with then weekend getaways in drives that are less than 4 hours each way for a small but significant percent.

So again, for the BULK of the population who are city people with occasional weekend trips EV's are ideal.

QP! said:

and yet i know a lot of people with EV's in NYC and Toronto and Vancouver downtowns and a few other major cities i used to travel a ton and once they bought their first EV's they were never going back.

The VAST majority of people living in cities commute is from Home, to work, while dropping kids at school, and maybe hitting a grocery store on the way home, all done at the charge they got at their home.

That makes up the BULK of miles people drive with then weekend getaways in drives that are less than 4 hours each way for a small but significant percent.

So again, for the BULK of the population who are city people with occasional weekend trips EV's are ideal.

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Anecdote is not evidence.

T. A. Gardner said:

Anecdote is not evidence.

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that is why i did not ONLY offer the anecdote and also offered evidence.

And you should be less stupid saying stuff like the above as this is only one of numerous anecdotes you have offered tonight in your argument as you point to a conclusion from your anecdote.

T. A. Gardner said:

Earlier this month, I drove from Phoenix to Tucson a distance of about 150 miles. Outside of the two metro areas, I saw maybe 2 or 3 Teslas on I 10 driving between the two. The number present rose considerably once inside the metro area, particularly Phoenix. People simply aren't buying them, for the most part, as their go-anywhere vehicle but as a second "daily driver" for commutes and other short trips.

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Nordberg said:

Sure is nice driving an EV and not being impacted by oil prices.

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Sure is nice driving an ICE and not being impacted by electricity prices and limited range.

QP! said:

That is not what you said.

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That WAS what he said.

What you say next is NOT what HE said. This 'bogus position assignment' game is the same, tired, stupid game that you consistently play with myself and numerous others on here.

QP! said:

In your stupidity you claimed they cannot drive out of a town and that is simply completely inaccurate.

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Bogus position assignment. He said no such thing. Stop lying.

QP! said:

You could easily plan a cross America trip, coast to coast, easily with today's ev range and charger access.

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I wouldn't say "easily", but you could. Of course, this "cross America trip" would also take MUCH longer to complete with an EV than with an ICE, and an EV would be limited in precisely where it could go, meanwhile an ICE could go anywhere there is a road (and even off-road!)

QP! said:

You would have to do more work too identify the few places that might be a challenge.

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It's more than just a few places.

gfm7175 said:

That WAS what he said.

What you say next is NOT what HE said. This 'bogus position assignment' game is the same, tired, stupid game that you consistently play with myself and numerous others on here.

Bogus position assignment. He said no such thing. Stop lying.

I wouldn't say "easily", but you could. Of course, this "cross America trip" would also take MUCH longer to complete with an EV than with an ICE, and an EV would be limited in precisely where it could go, meanwhile an ICE could go anywhere there is a road (and even off-road!)

It's more than just a few places.

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Wrong it was what he said.

And the "more" than a few places are all the same complexion of 'rural out of the way places with almost no large population centers nearby'.


That is really it. Everywhere else an EV works just fine for all.

My son's job has him traveling the state. He uses his electric car and has no problems. Michigan has halted building new chargers due to Trump's stupidity. But there are still a lot. Type in" charging stations near me" on the phone and it will light up with options.

QP! said:

The AI says it can provide a list of the charging stations in a maps format, so yes i trust it.

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You can trust AI to plan it for you and let me know how that goes.

Any time that I've ever tested out AI with planning just about anything (even simple stuff like planning out a day at a state park), it "gets it wrong" way too often. I end up having to correct all sorts of mistakes that the AI makes to the point where I'm the one who is actually still doing much of the planning.

I wouldn't trust AI at all when it comes to something more serious (such as planning a long trip in an EV).

gfm7175 said:

You can trust AI to plan it for you and let me know how that goes.

Any time that I've tested out AI with planning just about anything (even simple stuff like planning out a day at a state park), it "gets it wrong" way too often. I end up having to correct all sorts of mistakes that the AI makes to the point where I'm the one who is actually doing much of the planning.

I wouldn't trust AI at all when it comes to something more serious (such as planning a long trip in an EV).

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Ya but that is because you refuse to google or AI and think your logic, and 'thinking for yourself', is enough to be able to figure it out.

So no wonder everything is wrong when someone stupid like you won't use the tools that would help you.

Nordberg said:

Are you really that stupid?

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Yes, you are. You continuously show this forum that the answer is a resounding YES.

Nordberg said:

EV drivers drive all over the place .

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Outside of Madison, I rarely see EV's around me anywhere.

Nordberg said:

You are not capable of learning a thing.

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That's YOU, Nordy.

Nordberg said:

The new EVs are well over 350 miles. range.

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No, they aren't. Stop falling for stupid marketing gimmicks.

Nordberg said:

The ones coming next will be over 500. Charging is getting very fast, like 15 minutes to 80 percent.

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Not at all.

QP! said:

that is why i did not ONLY offer the anecdote and also offered evidence.

And you should be less stupid saying stuff like the above as this is only one of numerous anecdotes you have offered tonight in your argument as you point to a conclusion from your anecdote.

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What I offered wasn't anecdote.

an·ec·dote
[ˈanɪkdəʊt]
noun
anecdote (noun)
anecdotes (plural noun)

1. a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person

I gave you a quantification based on observation. I drove a route and looked for Teslas and EV's as I drove it. I kept track of the number I saw. That isn't anecdote.

T. A. Gardner said:

What I offered wasn't anecdote.

an·ec·dote
[ˈanɪkdəʊt]
noun
anecdote (noun)
anecdotes (plural noun)

1. a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person

I gave you a quantification based on observation. I drove a route and looked for Teslas and EV's as I drove it. I kept track of the number I saw. That isn't anecdote.

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what you offered is absolutely considered anecodotal. it is your PERSONAL observations and reporting. we have to believe what you are reporting.

Like you i gave quantification based on observation. The people i personally know who have EV's and you hand waved it away as anecdotal when it is EXACTLY the same value evidence you provide. It is both of our observations .

QP! said:

Ya but that is because you refuse to google or AI

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I refuse to use them as sources because they pull from leftist propaganda and they are wrong way too often.

Like I said, I've experimented with AI in something as simple as planning a day at a state park and it gets too many details wrong (which I then have to inform AI as to what it is wrong about and why it is wrong, which it then corrects). In the end, it's still me doing most of the planning because I have to often correct the details that AI gets wrong.

In one example, it was informing me about an underpass project that could affect my day there. The only issue is that the underpass project was already completed years ago. I already knew that fact, but the AI didn't, so I had to correct the AI about that fact. It also gets information about access and availability of bathrooms wrong (e.g. it doesn't list all available bathrooms at the location, gets the locations of the bathrooms wrong, and it isn't always correct about the types of bathrooms that they are). It also too-often gets details about the trails wrong (like where they are, where they go, their length, etc). On a very generic basis, it usually does decent-enough, but diving into details, it too-often gets it wrong.

If I can't even trust it to plan out a simple day at a state park, I most certainly wouldn't trust it to plan out a day trip in an EV.

QP! said:

and think your logic, and 'thinking for yourself', is enough to be able to figure it out.

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What do you suppose people did before AI?

QP! said:

So no wonder everything is wrong when someone stupid like you won't use the tools that would help you.

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Like I said, I've tested out "the tools" and I find them to be very lacking in terms of accuracy. I wouldn't recommend relying upon them.