๐ง๐ต๐ฒ ๐ข๐ฟ๐ฎ๐ป๐ด๐ฒ ๐ข๐ฎ๐ณ ๐ฒ๐ป๐ฎ๐ฐ๐๐ ๐๐ฐ๐ต๐ฒ๐บ๐ฒ ๐๐ผ ๐๐ฒ๐บ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ถ๐น๐ ๐น๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ณ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐ ๐๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ง๐๐ฅ๐ ๐ฆ....
- Thread starter Nomad
- Start date
Tbird19482
Verified User
Well it is a fact if you want a recession vote Republican, and if Trump keeps going the way he is we might have one soon.
11 out of the last 12 Recessions started under a Republican president then it takes a DEM to get elected to get us out of it just like when Obama got us out of the deep recession almost depression Bush got us into, then he handed a recovered economy off to trump who fucked that up,
You were one of the ones quacking about high beef prices. The only way to lower them is increasing the supply. WTF do you alt lefties stand for?....by removing tariffs from imported non-US ground beef, despite the fact that American cattle ranchers might end up getting a raw deal.
And of course, he will not yet say which country(ies) will be supplying the beef.
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So congratulations MAGA morons.
For selling your country down the river, your reward will be less expensive HAMBURGER.
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T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
So, sort of like Biden did with oil during his mid-term election? Got it.
I didn't like Biden manipulating the oil market for political convenience, and I don't like Trump trying to manipulate beef prices either. Government shouldn't be picking a politically convenient price and then intervening until the market produces it.
But the comparison is still dumb. Exxon isn't some family operation trying to survive another year. Cattle production includes thousands of independent ranchers operating on much thinner margins.
So sure, both Biden and Trump are playing market-intervention games for electoral advantage. The difference is that Trump's policy risks hurting the very small, independent producers he constantly claims to be defending.
QP!
Verified User
Don't deny @T. A. Gardner his 'whataboutBiden!!!' as that is 99% of the only reply he has available as he reflexively jumps to defend all things Trump, even the least defensible ones.
He will likely now reflexively label you (YOU
) a lefty as he thinks everyone must view all Trump's actions thru his cultist eyes.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Exactly.
QP!
Verified User
Can you explain why Trump is lowering or removing tariffs on this foreign beef as a way to bring it all in to help lower costs for Americans?
Trumps entire premise on tariffs is that the foreign country pays them and not US citizens so what he is doing here giving the foreign countries a huge tax break.
How does giving Argentine and other farmers a tax break help Americans?
QP!
Verified User
I think you need to re-read my focus which was on Trump's messaging and HIS case for tariffs.
In reality tariffs work by raising the price on imported goods that AMERICANS would PAY for them, thus allowing American companies to have more room for profit margin due to higher prices and inflation and thus the counter poison pill impact that comes with them.
But what Trump is saying on Earth 2 is they work by taxing the foreign countries or companies. They DO NOT.
I only need to reply to what you actually said.
You claimed Trumpโs tariff argument was essentially about one thing. It isnโt. He has repeatedly argued that tariffs can be avoided by producing the product here instead.
That may be his standard answer for manufactured goods, but itโs not much of a solution for beef. You donโt just move cattle production into a factory in Ohio because imports got more expensive.
So yes, his broader tariff messaging absolutely matters here โ and you conveniently left that part out altogether.
QP!
Verified User
Not true.
I spoke to a 'premise'. Look up the definition of a premise which is the basis upon which an argument is built.
I PROPERLY identified Trump's core premise. You have elaborated on the arguments built upon which i did not need to address but could have but based on the poster i was replying to saw it not valuable.
The 'premise' was. It was a world where all taxes coming in to the US would be paid by foreign people and countries and even income tax in America could be eliminated. Flowing from that would be the price inflation that would allow to re-shore jobs.
Yes.. See above and look to the poster i was reply to. No need to go levels deep with him. Addressing the 'core premise' only was plenty enough.
Your problem is that you keep retreating into narrower definitions after the fact.
Trumpโs โcore premiseโ on tariffs has never existed in isolation from the reshoring argument. He repeatedly sells the policy as: foreign goods get more expensive, companies can avoid that cost by producing here, and American production increases.
That is not some irrelevant โlevel deeper.โ It is one of his central justifications for tariffs.
You omitted a major part of Trumpโs own argument, and now youโre trying to redefine โpremiseโ narrowly enough that the omission supposedly doesnโt count.
That semantic dodge may work on someone who isnโt paying attention. I am.
Even the Jewish members?
trump took Biden's historic and world-renowned recovery from trump's own mishandling of the Covid crisis and threw the world's economy into the shitter with his moron tariffs and illegal wars.....by removing tariffs from imported non-US ground beef, despite the fact that American cattle ranchers might end up getting a raw deal.
And of course, he will not yet say which country(ies) will be supplying the beef.
View attachment 92970
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View attachment 92975
View attachment 92976
So congratulations MAGA morons.
For selling your country down the river, your reward will be less expensive HAMBURGER.
View attachment 92977
Well, let's do a little analysis. ChatGPT - what has been the cause of rising beef prices in the U.S.?
Drought + high production costs โ ranchers reduced herds โ fewer calves โ less beef reaching market โ higher cattle and beef prices.
So, basically, it all started with a drought - and a chain-reaction from there. The scary thing is - cows are NOT like chickens - it'll take years to rebuild herds in the U.S. before we see the supply increase.
I know this is a political stunt - trump doesn't give a shit about Americans who can't donate to his ballroom. It'll be interesting to see if trump's plan actually has an effect on beef prices in the U.S.
Actually, the cost of feed is not as much of an issue any longer. It sure was recently. I asked for a recent analysis of beef prices since 2020 - they've been "creeping up" for years. It's just more intense now -
I don't think so, my friend. Flooding the market with foreign beef will incentivize ranchers to REDUCE herds.
There is one potential downside that ranchers are emphasizing. If cheaper imports push cattle prices down enough, ranchers have less incentive to retain heifers and rebuild the U.S. herd. That could provide some short-term consumer relief while potentially delaying the long-term supply recovery. U.S. cattle groups have made exactly that argument.
So, Earl, I'd frame Trump's move this way: it can legitimately take some pressure off hamburger prices, but it can't solve the underlying beef-price problem. The fundamental issue is still that America has far fewer cattle than it used to. USDA's August outlook continues to show tight cattle supplies extending into 2027.