McCain to Trump: Stop cozying up to Russia

[christiefan915]

Sen. John McCain on Tuesday issued a strongly worded statement warning President-elect Donald Trump not to trust overtures of peace from the Kremlin and to be cautious of supposed attempts to strengthen U.S.-Russian ties.

"With the U.S. presidential transition underway, Vladimir Putin has said in recent days that he wants to improve relations with the United States," McCain said. "We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatened America's allies, and attempted to undermine America's elections."

The statement comes as Russia has reportedly stepped up airstrikes in Syria as part of what appears to be a renewed offensive to retake the city of Aleppo. Following Moscow's continued deployments of military might to the region, McCain said the warming of relations must stop.

http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/15/mccain-to-trump-stop-cozying-up-to-russia/21606756/

 

[anatta]

With the U.S. presidential transition underway, Vladimir Putin has said in recent days that he wants to improve relations with the United States," McCain said. "We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatened America's allies, and attempted to undermine America's elections."

" bomb bomb bomb..bomb bomb Iran.".. seriously. fuck this old piece of trash cold warrior.

Putin doesn't need to expand -what Putin needs is a better economy to cement the gains in Crimea/Donbass.
He's got every reason to curb the New ColdWar.

Trump doesn't neded to get bogged down in old cold war crap. Forget that nonsense and partner against terrorism.

Fuck McCain. and the Warhorse he rode in on

 

[christiefan915]

" bomb bomb bomb..bomb bomb Iran.".. seriously. fuck this old piece of trash cold warrior.

Putin doesn't need to expand -what Putin needs is a better economy to cement the gains in Crimea/Donbass.
He's got every reason to curb the New ColdWar.

Trump doesn't neded to get bogged down in old cold war crap. Forget that nonsense and partner against terrorism.

Fuck McCain. and the Warhorse he rode in on

I don't like McCain's hawkishness either, and criticized him over those Iran comments. But I see nothing at all trustworthy about Putin no matter who he engages with: bush, Hillary or trump.

Putin is only about what benefits himself.

 

[Darth Omar]

I don't like McCain's hawkishness either, and criticized him over those Iran comments. But I see nothing at all trustworthy about Putin no matter who he engages with: bush, Hillary or trump.

Putin is only about what benefits himself.

So, Putin is self-interested like pretty much else on the world scene. I don't have a problem with extending a provisional olive branch to Putin. Russia is no threat to us.

ISIS is a threat to us. Trump is willing to step outside the decades old paradigm and give the Russians a fresh look. I think it's a good idea with a lot of potential upside.

 

[christiefan915]

So, Putin is self-interested like pretty much else on the world scene. I don't have a problem with extending a provisional olive branch to Putin. Russia is no threat to us.

ISIS is a threat to us. Trump is willing to step outside the decades old paradigm and give the Russians a fresh look. I think it's a good idea with a lot of potential upside.

Why didn't Putin accept the bush olive branch?

"Bush thought he could forge more meaningful ties with Russia in his early years, particularly after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and for a time seemed to make significant headway with a nuclear arms treaty and cooperation on Afghanistan, only to become frustrated as the two countries diverged, eventually coming into overt diplomatic conflict during the Georgia war of 2008.

Obama likewise came into office intent on pushing the “reset” button and similarly saw early progress with a nuclear arms treaty and cooperation on Afghanistan, only to find his efforts increasingly thwarted by the same Putinist revanchism. Whether the recent Russian-American collaboration to disarm Syria’s chemical stocks will turn out to be a more enduring foundation for change remains to be seen."

 

[Darth Omar]

Why didn't Putin accept the bush olive branch?

Maybe Putin recognizes that Trump is a true outsider. Bush was anything but an outsider.

What's in our self-interest in being on a Cold War footing with Russia?

 

[anatta]

I don't like McCain's hawkishness either, and criticized him over those Iran comments. But I see nothing at all trustworthy about Putin no matter who he engages with: bush, Hillary or trump.

Putin is only about what benefits himself.

not a question of "trust" . it's matter of detente -
and for that to work both leaders have to believe better relations benefits each other more then the new cold war

 

[MSgt]

Douchebag Donald doesn't like veterans. Especially ones who were captured!

 

[tsuke]

Douchebag Donald doesn't like veterans. Especially ones who were captured!

its like japan. take out one of theirs instead of getting captured. banzai!

 

[sear]

I'm not a Trump partisan.
I opposed Trump's candidacy.
I agreed with David Brooks who stated that Trump's early primary victories were flukes, and that he'd never win the nomination.
After Trump won the nomination I believed the polls that said he'd lose to Hillary.

So I've been misunderestimating Trump from the beginning.

I respect Senator McCain's (R-AZ) perspective on it.

BUT !!

Let's cut the Don (R-NY) a tad of slack here.
I haven't heard Trump express support for Syria's Assad. I haven't heard Trump advocate Russian annexation of Ukraine.
I gather what Trump has done was to acknowledge Putin's leadership.

NOW:

Putin has to some degree run the Russian economy into the ditch.
- Gazprom was a major source of international revenue for Russia. BUT !! When Putin shut off the supply, albeit briefly, Western Europe realized they couldn't rely on it; and have begun to replace the Gazprom supply with alternatives.

- The annexation of Crimea has brought economic sanctions on Russia which have lowered the standard of living there.

This is the kind of leadership Trump admires?
Threedee #8 makes a painfully sharp point.

BUT !!

Let's see where it goes. I'm sure Putin may have some redeeming quality. Let's give Don benefit of doubt here. He lives in NY, not DC. And Trump will learn a lot before he changes addresses.

 

[anatta]

I'm not a Trump partisan.
I opposed Trump's candidacy.
I agreed with David Brooks who stated that Trump's early primary victories were flukes, and that he'd never win the nomination.
After Trump won the nomination I believed the polls that said he'd lose to Hillary.

So I've been misunderestimating Trump from the beginning.

I respect Senator McCain's (R-AZ) perspective on it.

BUT !!

Let's cut the Don (R-NY) a tad of slack here.
I haven't heard Trump express support for Syria's Assad. I haven't heard Trump advocate Russian annexation of Ukraine.
I gather what Trump has done was to acknowledge Putin's leadership.

NOW:

Putin has to some degree run the Russian economy into the ditch.
- Gazprom was a major source of international revenue for Russia. BUT !! When Putin shut off the supply, albeit briefly, Western Europe realized they couldn't rely on it; and have begun to replace the Gazprom supply with alternatives.

- The annexation of Crimea has brought economic sanctions on Russia which have lowered the standard of living there.

This is the kind of leadership Trump admires?
Threedee #8 makes a painfully sharp point.

BUT !!

Let's see where it goes. I'm sure Putin may have some redeeming quality. Let's give Don benefit of doubt here. He lives in NY, not DC. And Trump will learn a lot before he changes addresses.

^ good quality factual post. Putin is doing especially well on the international stage. as a chess player I greatly admire a well played gambit.
But for the US/west all that matters is detente,and how to get there

 

[Darth Omar]

^ good quality factual post. Putin is doing especially well on the international stage. as a chess player I greatly admire a well played gambit.
But for the US/west all that matters is detente,and how to get there

I get the sense that Putin wants to be a part of the West instead of being considered an outsider. According to that theory he sees himself as a guardian of western culture in a sort of Alt-right sense. Putin has been critical of Europes insane immigration policy.

Why would he even care to comment on it if western culture wasn't important to him?

It explains why Putin is apparently happy that Trump got elected and is willing to partner with him in ways he didn't Bush II or Obama.

But it's just a theory lol.

 

[sear]

"Putin is doing especially well on the international stage." #11

Putin is a treacherous thug w/ a Cold War mentality.

- He's former KGB.
- His critics have a bad habit of showing up dead.
- Instead of using properly uniformed Russian military troops, Putin has used troops with ambiguous affiliation. But their objectives betray their senior command.
- Russian aerial combat in Syria has been reported to be nearly indiscriminate. At least U.S. tactical air support makes an effort to avoid collateral casualties.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If I may add a personal note:
One glaring peculiarity about Putin, he simply does not get capitalism.

I read a report written shortly after the wall fell.
Putin was in a food store, and saw that the price of a loaf of bread was higher than the Cold War price.
The article said Putin confronted the store manager, and before leaving pressured the manager to say, the price would be lowered tomorrow.

Decades past between that and the Socci Olympics.
But the proof that Putin still doesn't get it?

When Mitt Romney ran the Winter Olympics in Utah, they turned a profit.
When Putin ran the Olympics in Socci it cost Russia ~$20 $Billion $dollars.

Putin squealed like a stuck pig to join the G8 (even if his presence there isn't warranted by economic merit).
But since the Russian military annexation of Crimea, it's the G7 again.

Economic sanctions seem to absolutely blindside Putin. Somebody buy this guy a vowel!

 

[sear]

PS

#12

Yes.
But why?

It seems some if not most of Putin's wish for that is so that he (Putin) has the prestige of being a world leader.

But he's a thug.

 

[Darth Omar]

PS

#12

Yes.
But why?

It seems some if not most of Putin's wish for that is so that he (Putin) has the prestige of being a world leader.

But he's a thug.

Why? Because Putin [thug or no] has been the only world leader that seems to care about Christian genocide in the Middle East. I believe that meets the requirement for 'Western' by at least one metric.

If he's a thug, what of it? The Saudis leave something to be desired and we have normal relations with them. Erdogan brutally crushed an uprising and he's all but in the E.U. Etc, etc on and on.

I don't get the point.

 

[sear]

Thanks #15

First of all, let's parry your - the other guy's a bum too - defense.
The Saudis may be the worst human refuse ever born. Splendid. Putting them down doesn't lift Putin up. It may undermine U.S. diplomatic standards. But what bearing does that have on Putin?

"Christian genocide in the Middle East"

I doubt Putin is a Christian, as the Soviets opposed divided loyalties. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian State. And Putin is a Soviet era leader.

OTO Obama is a Christian.
So of the two; I'd think Obama would be the more likely to oppose "Christian genocide in the Middle East".

BUT !

Unlike the previous U.S. president, Obama doesn't treat the U.S. military as his own private justice brigade.

" Erdogan brutally crushed an uprising and "

I don't cyber-know you.
But on short notice I deduce that you are an intelligent, thoughtful poster.
So you may know, the U.S. has had a special relationship with Turkey for centuries. Wasn't Thomas Jefferson ambassador to Turkey?

Clearly our relationship there is complicated. The Kurds are great friends to the U.S., particularly since we helped them in their refuge from Saddam after the Gulf War (the elder President Bush's war).
So the Kurds are allies to U.S., but reviled terrorists to the Turks.

" Erdogan brutally crushed "

Clinton "brutally crushed" the Branch Davidians; a clear cut case of genocide.

Skip the myopia. It's clouds both vision and judgement.

 

[anatta]

Putin is a treacherous thug w/ a Cold War mentality.

- He's former KGB.
- His critics have a bad habit of showing up dead.
- Instead of using properly uniformed Russian military troops, Putin has used troops with ambiguous affiliation. But their objectives betray their senior command.
- Russian aerial combat in Syria has been reported to be nearly indiscriminate. At least U.S. tactical air support makes an effort to avoid collateral casualties.

yes. non-insignia troops and trucks without license plates rolled into the Ukraine -and the "little green men" in Donbass.
yes in Syria too -so what? He's a bad guy but an effective bad guys is the point


I

f I may add a personal note:
One glaring peculiarity about Putin, he simply does not get capitalism.

I read a report written shortly after the wall fell.
Putin was in a food store, and saw that the price of a loaf of bread was higher than the Cold War price.
The article said Putin confronted the store manager, and before leaving pressured the manager to say, the price would be lowered tomorrow.

I saw a bit of that. it wasn't clear what he was doing -he was most definately being a hands on manager. other then that I didn't see enough

Decades past between that and the Socci Olympics.
But the proof that Putin still doesn't get it?

When Mitt Romney ran the Winter Olympics in Utah, they turned a profit.
When Putin ran the Olympics in Socci it cost Russia ~$20 $Billion $dollars.

Putin squealed like a stuck pig to join the G8 (even if his presence there isn't warranted by economic merit).
But since the Russian military annexation of Crimea, it's the G7 again.

there was more then turning a profit involved.
It was a "glorious exposition" of Russia as being on the world stage

Economic sanctions seem to absolutely blindside Putin. Somebody buy this guy a vowel!

the gambit

 

[anatta]

I get the sense that Putin wants to be a part of the West instead of being considered an outsider. According to that theory he sees himself as a guardian of western culture in a sort of Alt-right sense. Putin has been critical of Europes insane immigration policy.

Why would he even care to comment on it if western culture wasn't important to him?

It explains why Putin is apparently happy that Trump got elected and is willing to partner with him in ways he didn't Bush II or Obama.

But it's just a theory lol.

Russia is a western state that is 1/2 in Asia/ we want to keep them oriented toward the west -not China

 

[sear]

"yes. non-insignia troops and trucks without license plates rolled into the Ukraine -and the "little green men" in Donbass.
yes in Syria too -so what?"

Good question.

Answer: it's tantamount to a confession of guilt.
If Putin was proud, and secure in the legal footing of his incursions, why would he conceal the nationality and sponsorship of his invading / conquering forces?

"He's a bad guy but an effective bad guys is the point"

Obviously.
But that's about Putin.
The more alarming issue is why REPUBLICAN presidents or president elect fawn over Putin so.
Trump seems to admire Putin.
If Trump likes Putin, then perhaps he's enraptured by Assad.

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to uhm, get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country, and the best interests of his country." U.S. President Bush (the younger) assessing Russia's Vlad Putin in June, 2001

"Trustworthy"?!

"TRUSTWORTHY"?!?!

" T R U S T W O R T H Y " ??!

Get that guy a rubber room!
Could there possibly be a worse assessment of character than that?!

"-he was most definately being a hands on manager." a #17

Demonstrating ignorance of fundamental economics on an epic scale.
Stores don't price merchandise on what "hands on manager"s think the price should be.

Stores price their inventory on total cost (not merely production cost but:
- production
- transport
- storage
- stocking
- display
- margin (to afford to patch the roof when it starts to leak)
- PLUS PROFIT !!

So where the %$#@ does "hands on" Putin think the money is going to come from, if the sale doesn't cover costs?

So the people will get a real bargain, right up until the moment the store goes bankrupt, and shuts down.

Brilliant!

"there was more then turning a profit involved.
It was a "glorious exposition" of Russia as being on the world stage" #17

Ditto for Romney / Utah. Where's the glory in losing $20 $Billion?

- Would Socci have been less glorious if they'd turned a profit, or at least only lost $10 $Billion?

- Would Utah's have been MORE glorious if they'd lost $10 $Billion?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anyway, earlier today I heard a report that Putin has withdrawn his application for Russian membership w/ the world court.
It seems such prestige membership would be more a liability than a benefit.

 

[evince]

Sen. John McCain on Tuesday issued a strongly worded statement warning President-elect Donald Trump not to trust overtures of peace from the Kremlin and to be cautious of supposed attempts to strengthen U.S.-Russian ties.

"With the U.S. presidential transition underway, Vladimir Putin has said in recent days that he wants to improve relations with the United States," McCain said. "We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatened America's allies, and attempted to undermine America's elections."

The statement comes as Russia has reportedly stepped up airstrikes in Syria as part of what appears to be a renewed offensive to retake the city of Aleppo. Following Moscow's continued deployments of military might to the region, McCain said the warming of relations must stop.

http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/15/mccain-to-trump-stop-cozying-up-to-russia/21606756/

putin will blackmail him with the Russian help in the election