'The separating families" argument. Against Deportation

Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
how do you separate the two without affecting citizens?
An absurd question......no one is requiring anyone to separate.... #40
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I don't think so.

INS has no authority to deport U.S. citizens.
So it deports the parents, orphaning their U.S. citizen children.
“You claim the mantle of the party of family values, and this is the guy you nominate”. President Obama commenting on the Republican party's nomination of Donald Trump (during headline news of Trump boasting about inappropriate behavior w/ women) FOX / Google 16/10/13
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sear said:
I don't think so.

INS has no authority to deport U.S. citizens.
So it deports the parents, orphaning their U.S. citizen children.
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only if the parents abandon their children.......by the way, why are you unable to use the quote button......when I am posting on my phone there is no way to see who you are talking to......many times I don't bother reading your posts because there is no way to follow a conversation......
 
Bill said:
Friendly for who?? Those coming here or those here looking for better jobs & pay??
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how about this.....
employers can get a work visa for any employee they want so long as they 1) pay a living wage for them and any family they bring, plus 2) health insurance, plus 3) an additional $1 per hour to the government to pay for the federal oversight system........

as long as the worker is not a US citizen they pay taxes but no SS or Medicare (nor do they qualify for any benefits)......during that time the employer continues to pay into SS/MC which is added to balance the benefits budget.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
how about this.....
employers can get a work visa for any employee they want so long as they 1) pay a living wage for them and any family they bring, plus 2) health insurance, plus 3) an additional $1 per hour to the government to pay for the federal oversight system........

as long as the worker is not a US citizen they pay taxes but no SS or Medicare (nor do they qualify for any benefits)......during that time the employer continues to pay into SS/MC which is added to balance the benefits budget.......
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??So those coming over on a work visa are guaranteed a living wage while citizens are not??

Restrictions on who & how many "family members" they can bring & what of the "American citizens" born to them on their stay??
 
Bill said:
??So those coming over on a work visa are guaranteed a living wage while citizens are not??
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yes......that way you know that the employer's aren't giving jobs to immigrants that an American would do.......the employer would have to pay the immigrant MORE than he could hire an American for......

Restrictions on who & how many "family members" they can bring
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no, but if an employer brings over a man with ten kids he has to pay him enough to support ten kids.....the government should not have to help support them....

& what of the "American citizens" born to them on their stay??
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that law goes.....it was never intended to cover anyone except the freed slaves in the first place and should never have been expanded........
 
tsuke said:
thats true of any situation. If your dad kills someone and you lose out on time with him you didnt do anything but be born. Same with robbery theft or pretty much any situation requiring punishment.

The remedy you want is to change the law not to refuse to enforce it.
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it depends; it is Only a federal law.

it is like asking gun lovers to be "legal" to 10USC311.
 
#51

Please don't be simple.

a) It's not a child's decision. Before charges reach the age of adult legal emancipation, it's the parent's decision.

b) The parents obviously want what is in the best interests of the child.

c) South of the border, there's corruption, crime, poverty, and worse.

So parents wanting to do the very best for their own offspring may feel leaving their U.S. born children in the U.S. after they've been deported is for the better.

That doesn't mean deporting the parents isn't breaking up families.
 
sear said:
#51

Please don't be simple.

a) It's not a child's decision. Before charges reach the age of adult legal emancipation, it's the parent's decision.

b) The parents obviously want what is in the best interests of the child.

c) South of the border, there's corruption, crime, poverty, and worse.

So parents wanting to do the very best for their own offspring may feel leaving their U.S. born children in the U.S. after they've been deported is for the better.

That doesn't mean deporting the parents isn't breaking up families.
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I answered a specific question....which was what if the citizen decided not to leave.....it is not "being simple" to presume the question was about the citizen's decision, not the parent's decision......if the parents decide not to abandon their child then they obviously take their child home with them.....there are no other factors involved......
 
"are you implying, the right is always wrong?" #47
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The opposite.
Lefties are not generally industrialists, capitalists.
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”
attributed to Winston L. S. Churchill
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Echoing Churchill here, capitalism might be a crummy system. But it's better than all the others.

#53

You may not wish to infer more (or less) than I imply.
"Simple" and "complex" are counterparts.

Minor children can in these circumstances be deported to a nation they've never been to; to a culture they've never known, speaking a language they may not know.

It is a bedeviling decision for alien parents of U.S. citizen children. Which is the worse harm? Move them to a land foreign to them? Or estrange them from the parents that love and nurture them?
 
If a father chooses to rob a bank to support his family, he goes to prison and the family is separated.

If a father chooses to illegally emigrate to the USA he faces deportation and likewise the family is separated.

It is not the government's obligation to figure out how to keep a family together after criminal behavior causes its separation.
 
sear said:
The opposite.
Lefties are not generally industrialists, capitalists.

Echoing Churchill here, capitalism might be a crummy system. But it's better than all the others.

#53

You may not wish to infer more (or less) than I imply.
"Simple" and "complex" are counterparts.

Minor children can in these circumstances be deported to a nation they've never been to; to a culture they've never known, speaking a language they may not know.

It is a bedeviling decision for alien parents of U.S. citizen children. Which is the worse harm? Move them to a land foreign to them? Or estrange them from the parents that love and nurture them?
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in case you missed it; we have a mixed market economy that is part capitalism and part socialism. the right make lousy socialists, for free.

unfortunately, socialism also requires social morals for free.
 
#56 T2

Right.
You're conflating malum in se: evil; wrong by itself w/ malum prohibitum: wrong by prohibition.

And you're extrapolating that into punishing the victims; the children had no say in where they were born. So your remedy is to punish them further by deporting their parents? "for free"
 
sear said:
#56 T2

Right.
You're conflating malum in se: evil; wrong by itself w/ malum prohibitum: wrong by prohibition.

And you're extrapolating that into punishing the victims; the children had no say in where they were born. So your remedy is to punish them further by deporting their parents? "for free"
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Nothing is conflated, two illegal activities are being compared. Not equated.

Families are routinely deprived of parents if the parents engage in illegal activities.

Is your argument that only American citizen parents must endure this hardship, but not foreign citizens?
 
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