The Science and Environmental Policy Project

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I wonder if McAwful's dad knows some of these people. Of course they aren't allowed any opinion on CO2 climate forcing, according to him and Spruce, because they are not trained climatologists. Well guess what they went ahead and calculated the likely temperature rise for a doubling of CO2 anyway.

Brought to You by SEPP (www.SEPP.org) The Science and Environmental Policy Project

THIS WEEK: By Ken Haapala, President

Bounding the Fear:

Last week’s TWTW discussed a presentation by Hal Doiron of The Right Climate Stuff Team (TRCS). TRCS is a group of retired and highly experienced engineers and scientists from the Apollo, Skylab, Space Shuttle and International Space Station eras who have volunteered their time and effort to conduct an objective, independent assessment of the carbon dioxide (CO2)-caused global warming to assess the reality of the actual threat, and separate that from unnecessary alarm. They have applied the techniques they learned for space missions to this task.

A rough engineering analogy is: How can they be confident that an astronaut will not cook or freeze in a space station or a space suit?

As a young engineer, Doiron approached the modelling of the lunar lander by bounding the risks. Similarly, he approached the problem of what would happen, in the worst case, with a doubling of carbon dioxide (CO2) by establishing an upper bound. The team created a simple, rigorous earth surface model using principles established in Conservation of Energy. He shows how the model is validated using 165 years of atmospheric greenhouse gas data and HadCRUT surface temperature data.

The worst-case scenario is that if all the temperature rise since 1850 is from CO2 increase in the atmosphere, then doubling would result in an increase of temperatures no greater than 1.8 degrees C, and may be far less. Given the extent of the data and conservation of energy principles, the digit to the right of the decimal point is significant. [Last week, this number was omitted from the TWTW text.] From today, the net increase the estimate is no greater than 1 degree C.

With Doiron’s approach, there is no need to be bogged down in the Kiehl – Trenberth general model, for which there are no accurate measurements for some of the key energy flows. For example, with the Kiehl – Trenberth model, we cannot guess with sufficient accuracy the values of all the energy flows needed to produce meaningful result. After 37 years, the failure to significantly narrow the range given for a doubling of CO2 in the Charney Report shows that Kiehl – Trenberth approach is futile, though used by the climate establishment.

The TRCS approach is empirical, based on the best long-term surface temperature data available. One must realize that the surface data has issues, such as human change in land use, influences by changes the oceans, changes in solar activity, etc. There may be reasons to continue to monitor the temperature trends, but no reason to fear the influence of CO2.

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Quote of the Week. “As usual, nature’s imagination far surpasses our own, as we have seen from the other theories which are subtle and deep”― Richard Feynman
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I would personally put far more faith in their findings than anything that emanates from the likes of Michael Mann or Keith Trenberth.

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

[Bigdog]

The Al Gorian high priests and priestesses will call this blasphemy!

 

[Cypress]

But you also presented a guy who self-identifies as an unemployed, mentally disturbed mushroom farmer, as a credible climate researcher.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...hemistry-changing-rapidly&p=640189#post640189

So, no one with any legitimate interest in science is going to buy anything your selling.
You may continue your relentless climate denial blather.

 

[Bigdog]

But you also presented a guy who self-identifies as an unemployed, mentally disturbed mushroom farmer, as a credible climate researcher.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...hemistry-changing-rapidly&p=640189#post640189

So, no one with any legitimate interest in science is going to buy anything your selling.
You may continue your relentless climate denial blather.

So we can finally dismiss this chicken little hoax given that a British court found that Al Gore LIED in his movie Inconvenient Truth. Thank you!!!!

 

[cancel2 2022]

But you also presented a guy who self-identifies as an unemployed, mentally disturbed mushroom farmer, as a credible climate researcher.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...hemistry-changing-rapidly&p=640189#post640189

So, no one with any legitimate interest in science is going to buy anything your selling.
You may continue your relentless climate denial blather.

Sticks to rocks fella, it's really sad that you drag something up from seven years ago. Why should you actually engage with the results when you could just go for the cheap shot.

 

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Conifer, for all his pretensions, would rather give more credence to quacks like Al Gore, Bill Nye and Michael Mann than a group of ex-NASA engineers and scientists, why you might well ask?

These are serious people who've worked on the Moon landings, Skylab, Space Shuttle and ISS yet he just dismisses them out of hand. Frankly that says far more about him than anything else.

http://www.therightclimatestuff.com/

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Sticks to rocks fella, it's really sad that you drag something up from seven years ago. Why should you actually engage with the results from the SEPP project when you could just go for the cheap shot.

This is classic Saul Alinsky, his fifth rule to be precise.

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

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Conifer, for all his pretensions, would rather give more credence to quacks like Al Gore, Bill Nye and Michael Mann than a group of ex-NASA engineers and scientists, why you ask?

These are serious people who've worked on the Moon landings, Skylab, Space Shuttle and ISS yet he just dismisses them out of hand. Frankly that says far more about him than anything else.

http://www.therightclimatestuff.com/

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

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Sent from my iPhone 10S

This is from their website, I do believe fervently that the bitter and overtly political debate over AGW needs people like these. They have no axe to grind and want only to investigate the data as it is, not how others would like to be.

The phrase "Climate Change", currently used by politicians and popular media, has been a politically driven evolutionary change from the more specific scientific phrase "Anthropogenic (Human-Caused) Global Warming" (AGW). *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ******
​The phrase has become political shorthand for the theorized worst case effects of the increasing atmospheric CO2 and other Greenhouse Gas (GHG) levels during the Industrial Age, believed to be caused primarily from the use of fossil fuels to provide the energy for the industrialized world. *These GHG concentrations in our atmosphere (other than the strong naturally occurring GHG provided by water vapor) will always be at trace gas levels, though much less than at previous times of our planet.* The theorized worst case effects are predicted by un-validated climate simulation models whose alarming projections have not been supported by the actual data observed so far.

We, a group of retired and highly experienced engineers and scientists from the Apollo, Skylab, Space Shuttle and International Space Station eras, have volunteered our time and effort conducting an objective, independent assessment of the AGW alarm and reality of the actual threat. We have reviewed hundreds of reports and technical papers relevant to the subject matter, and discussed key issues with experts on both sides of this controversy.*
​
During our pioneering years in the US manned space program, scientific controversy over complex technical issues was commonplace at numerous times when NASA needed to make critical spacecraft design and operational decisions affecting safety of astronauts. We have unique skills and experience in problem identification, specification, root cause analysis and rational decision-making applicable to public policy decisions related to the AGW concern.

To aid in monitoring the AGW concern, we have developed our own simple, but rigorous, earth surface temperature model using Conservation of Energy principles, similar to the way we analyze surface and internal temperature of spacecraft.* We have validated the model with 165 years of atmospheric GHG data and data on earth surface temperature variations. We have used this model to forecast what we believe will be the maximum, but small and non-harmful effects on earth surface temperature, from continued un-restricted use of fossil fuels, until they become too scarce and costly to meet the growing energy demand of our planet.

We expect a world-wide, market-driven transition to alternate sources of energy generation will be completed by 2150, leaving less than 600 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere, 50 percent more than current levels.* Highest levels of CO2 in our atmosphere have exceeded 7000 ppm from greater volcanic activity more than 400 million years ago. Naturally occurring planetary processes reduced atmospheric CO2 levels to a low of about 180 ppm experienced at the last Ice Age glacial maximum about 21,000 years ago. This was dangerously close to the critical 150 ppm limit required for green plants to grow.*

We have produced reports which, in our judgment, provide a more realistic projection of the maximum expected earth surface temperature rise over the next 150 years from rising atmospheric GHG levels. We believe that these more realistic projections do not justify the extent to which the UN and others propose to manipulate and likely devastate the various major economies of the world through mandating drastic reductions in the use of fossil fuels.

The links to the left are to our periodic reports and their summaries written as our four-year independent assessment of the AGW issue progressed.

Our experience during the early days of manned spaceflight proved the importance of this motto:

“In God we trust, all others bring data”

These were not only words that guided us during Apollo, but more importantly, words that defined how we did our work. This is what made us proud to be called “Astronauts,” and “Rocket Scientists.” Our study team will continue to adhere to these attitudes in order to achieve the goals of this study.​

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[moon]

Sticks to rocks fella, it's really sad that you drag something up from seven years ago. Why should you actually engage with the results when you could just go for the cheap shot.

But it's NOT a ' cheap shot ' is it. It's a piece of information which permanently destroys any credibility you might have had and exposes you as a pompous addlepate.

Milagro;
I would personally put far more faith in their findings than anything that emanates from the likes of Michael Mann or Keith Trenberth.

Don't expect any stampede of followers.

 

[moon]

Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
But you also presented a guy who self-identifies as an unemployed, mentally disturbed mushroom farmer, as a credible climate researcher.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...189#post640189

So, no one with any legitimate interest in science is going to buy anything your selling.
You may continue your relentless climate denial blather.

Good call, old chap. We've all heard quite enough of ' all's well ' from the maggot.

 

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But it's NOT a ' cheap shot ' is it. It's a piece of information which permanently destroys any credibility you might have had and exposes you as a pompous addlepate.



Don't expect any stampede of followers.

You are hardly one to speak of credibility, stick to Hamas Humping!

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

[cancel2 2022]

But you also presented a guy who self-identifies as an unemployed, mentally disturbed mushroom farmer, as a credible climate researcher.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...hemistry-changing-rapidly&p=640189#post640189

So, no one with any legitimate interest in science is going to buy anything your selling.
You may continue your relentless climate denial blather.

Yes I will continue, fuck you very much.

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

[moon]

Yes I will continue, fuck you very much.

Not with any confidence you won't, maggot.

 

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Not with any confidence you won't, maggot.

Maggots are useful to catch fish, of course foul smelling coelacanths are a different matter. Catching an enormous bottom dwelling monster like you requires bigger bait.

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

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Not with any confidence you won't, maggot.

You won't be in any future threads anyway.

Sent from my iPhone 10S

 

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You won't be in any future threads anyway.

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Conifer, like you, knows all the Saul Alinsky rules. In fact you are breaking rule 2 now!

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[moon]

You won't be in any future threads anyway.

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Conversely , I have nothing to fear from you being in mine. In fact, you're a useful idiot.

 

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Conversely , I have nothing to fear from you being in mine. In fact, you're a useful idiot.

Well I will ban you from certain types of threads like climate, I've started a new thread on the election called by Theresa May, feel free to impress us all with your flowery hate filled invective.

Sent from my iPhone 10S