Philosophy: Why Bother?

[sear]

This topic as current as you, right here, right now.
Every posting member participates in this forum.

And we all dine, check the mail, do our job, etc.

For centuries the American tradition was to work to create for the next generation a world better than their own.

The trend held up fairly well, for a while.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." Thomas Paine

It may be comforting to imagine an infinite future which unrelentingly trends toward improvement.

But astronomers predict that when our sun, our white dwarf star goes red giant, it will subsume Earth's orbit, and life on Earth will go from medium rare to well done.

Even if we find refuge in another, younger solar system, that refuge will (on cosmic scale) only be temporary. For cosmic heat death is inevitable.

Whether we'll still be biological by then, some bio/artificial hybrid, or whether fully artificial, the end will be near.

Food or fuel would have to be produced artificially, and with the convenient energy flux of stars all gone, our power source would soon be exhausted.

Therefore:
is it not all for naught?

Thus the topic question.
What is your fundamental motive for doing what you're doing right now? "Why Bother?" if it's all ultimately futile?

 

[anatta]

meanwhile I gotta pay the bills. so i log onto work

 

[sear]

Yes.
I suspect many approach their own lives like that a #2.
They continue the routine of their lives, without understanding, or perhaps in your case not even considering why.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

I was given one lifetime. Despite a few "speed bumps," I have, and will continue to, enjoy it the best I can until it ends.

 

[sear]

R6 #4

I've considered that. But that seems to suggest hedonism is life's raisons d’être.

But the irony of hedonism is, those that seem to seek it the most are those that seem to find it the least.

I turned to drugs for mind expansion & pain reduction. What resulted was pain expansion and mind reduction. Carrie Fischer

When was the most recent time you saw a happy heroin addict.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

R6 #4

I've considered that. But that seems to suggest hedonism is life's raisons d’être.

But the irony of hedonism is, those that seem to seek it the most are those that seem to find it the least.

When was the most recent time you saw a happy heroin addict.

Well, since I really can't make much sense of your post, that, and the fact I've never even considered heroin (what that has to do with anything, I have no clue), I will continue to do the things I have an interest in and enjoy doing. Some of them include the occasional drive in my AC Cobra, car shows, playing pool (billiards) with my friends and the hunting/shooting sports. It's all good.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

This topic as current as you, right here, right now.
Every posting member participates in this forum.

And we all dine, check the mail, do our job, etc.

For centuries the American tradition was to work to create for the next generation a world better than their own.

The trend held up fairly well, for a while.

It may be comforting to imagine an infinite future which unrelentingly trends toward improvement.

But astronomers predict that when our sun, our white dwarf star goes red giant, it will subsume Earth's orbit, and life on Earth will go from medium rare to well done.

Even if we find refuge in another, younger solar system, that refuge will (on cosmic scale) only be temporary. For cosmic heat death is inevitable.

Whether we'll still be biological by then, some bio/artificial hybrid, or whether fully artificial, the end will be near.

Food or fuel would have to be produced artificially, and with the convenient energy flux of stars all gone, our power source would soon be exhausted.

Therefore:
is it not all for naught?

Thus the topic question.
What is your fundamental motive for doing what you're doing right now? "Why Bother?" if it's all ultimately futile?

I just woke up but to answer your questions...to much fiber and nature calls bro.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes.
I suspect many approach their own lives like that a #2.
They continue the routine of their lives, without understanding, or perhaps in your case not even considering why.

That’s the single most important question to ask yourself at work and if you can’t answer it you probably need to find a new job. I constantly reflect on this question as it provides me direction and the discipline not to kill that asshole sales rep from Massachusetts.

 

[sear]

R6 #6

Reportedly The New York Times is written at the 4th grade reading level. I try to keep it within reach of most posters & lurkers.

hedonism (hêd´n-îz´em) noun
1.Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2.Philosophy. The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3.Psychology. The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

[Greek hêdonê, pleasure + -ism.]
- he´donist noun
- he´donis´tic adjective
- he´donis´tically adverb *

s #5 may make more sense to you, if you understand it's a responsive reply to: " I have, and will continue to, enjoy it the best I can until it ends. " R6

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes.
I suspect many approach their own lives like that a #2.
They continue the routine of their lives, without understanding, or perhaps in your case not even considering why.

Yes well to be honest some people can take this philosophy thing to seriously. Now between the two of us we can use philosophy to prove a ham sandwich doesn’t exist even if it’s toasted.

Ultimately what it is all about is you must provide the meaning and significance of your own life yourself through your own experiences and perceptions.

Now pass the joint and try not to drool so much on it.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Yes.
I suspect many approach their own lives like that a #2.
They continue the routine of their lives, without understanding, or perhaps in your case not even considering why.

Maybe the meaning of life is that there is no meaning. It just is.

The universe got along fine for billions of years without us. It will continue to do so after we've returned to star dust.

 

[sear]

"Ultimately what it is all about is you must provide the meaning and significance of your own life yourself through your own experiences and perceptions." MH #10

BUT !!
One of the risks is those that don't ask the question, or when asked refuse to answer is:

they can reach their death bed before it dawns on them. That's a tragedy.

And the benefit of asking the question long before death is to present the opportunity of mid-course correction.

Sarah Shays used to be a radio personality.
But she could see the complications for those living in Afghanistan. So she decided to up stakes and try to help.
She moved there, and started a business of making soap from material available in Afghanistan.

The most comfortable rut is the one you're in.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I agree with RB's response.

This is NOT a dress rehearsal; it is the life I am going to live...and I intend to enjoy it and be as content in it as possible.

If you want to think that is hedonism...and that "hedonism" is "bad" in some way...do so. In my opinion, you are the less for having done it.

Lighten up, Sear. Your other posts indicate you are above this.

Enjoy life as much as you can. If you are worrying about what may happen billions of years from now...you've got a major problem.

By the way...your star-ending sequencing is wrong.

Our sun is a yellow dwarf...and will expand to a red giant...and THEN go to a white dwarf.

 

[Darth Omar]

So, nobody is worried about what kind of world we’re going to leave for Keith Richards?

Sad.

 

[dukkha]

So, nobody is worried about what kind of world we’re going to leave for Keith Richards?

Sad.

ROFL..hilarious!
If we have a nuclear war only cockroaches and Keith Richards would survive, The man is immortal

 

[sear]

"I agree with RB's response.
This is NOT a dress rehearsal; it is the life I am going to live...and I intend to enjoy it and be as content in it as possible." FA #13

Who disagrees with that?
Who declares: That's enough of that darned enjoyment stuff! From now on it's suffering ALL THE WAY for me !!

It's too silly and obvious an assertion to formalize. "Water is wet."

Obviously the criteria of happiness varies enormously, and what is a satisfying, rewarding lifestyle to one person might be Hell on Earth to others.

So how should one decide? And what is the sanity check?

"If you want to think that is hedonism...and that "hedonism" is "bad" in some way...do so. In my opinion, you are the less for having done it.
Lighten up, Sear. Your other posts indicate you are above this." FA #13

?!
"Words mean things." Rush Limbaugh

"Enjoy life as much as you can." FA

Some people don't mind punching a clock.
But even when I was earning a steady paycheck, there were things I enjoyed doing more; sailing the yacht for example.

So if one is to faithfully follow your formula quoted verbatim immediately above, when one is commuting to work, should such enlightened persons skip the job, board the yacht, and enjoy the day sailing instead?
That would seem to be a faithful implementation of your formula.

"If you are worrying about what may happen billions of years from now...you've got a major problem." FA

Thanks.
Perhaps.
But I'm not.
I provided that as information, as context. I didn't offer it as a basis to justify skipping work, risking being fired.

"By the way...your star-ending sequencing is wrong.
Our sun is a yellow dwarf...and will expand to a red giant...and THEN go to a white dwarf." FA

Oh.
Thanks.
Yeah, astrophysics, not my strong suit. But it's the red giant part that matters.

 

[Cypress]

This topic as current as you, right here, right now.
Every posting member participates in this forum.

And we all dine, check the mail, do our job, etc.

For centuries the American tradition was to work to create for the next generation a world better than their own.

The trend held up fairly well, for a while.

It may be comforting to imagine an infinite future which unrelentingly trends toward improvement.

But astronomers predict that when our sun, our white dwarf star goes red giant, it will subsume Earth's orbit, and life on Earth will go from medium rare to well done.

Even if we find refuge in another, younger solar system, that refuge will (on cosmic scale) only be temporary. For cosmic heat death is inevitable.

Whether we'll still be biological by then, some bio/artificial hybrid, or whether fully artificial, the end will be near.

Food or fuel would have to be produced artificially, and with the convenient energy flux of stars all gone, our power source would soon be exhausted.

Therefore:
is it not all for naught?

Thus the topic question.
What is your fundamental motive for doing what you're doing right now? "Why Bother?" if it's all ultimately futile?

"I have lived through much, and now I think I have found what is needed for happiness. A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people to whom it is easy to do good, and who are not accustomed to have it done to them; then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbor -- such is my idea of happiness. And then, on the top of all that, you for a mate, and children perhaps -- what more can the heart of man desire?" - Leo Tolstoy

"People try to do all sorts of clever and difficult things to improve life instead of doing the simplest, easiest thing—refusing to participate in activities that make life bad." - Leo Tolstoy

"People usually think that progress consists in the increase of knowledge, in the improvement of life, but that isn't so. Progress consists only in the greater clarification of answers to the basic questions of life. The truth is always accessible to a man. It can't be otherwise, because a man's soul is a divine spark, the truth itself. It's only a matter of removing from this divine spark (the truth) everything that obscures it. Progress consists, not in the increase of truth, but in freeing it from its wrappings. The truth is obtained like gold, not by letting it grow bigger, but by washing off from it everything that isn't gold." - Leo Tolstoy

 

[sear]

C #17

You've reminded me:

"To laugh often, and love much, to win the respect of intelligent persons and the affection of children, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to give of ones self, to leave the world a lot better, to have played and sung with exhaltation, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, that is to have succeeded." Ralph Waldo Emerson 1803 - 1882

But Leo Toystore is a good reference two.

"Broad-mindedness is the result of flattening high-mindedness out." George Saintsbury

 

[Ross Dolan]

Who disagrees with that?
Who declares: That's enough of that darned enjoyment stuff! From now on it's suffering ALL THE WAY for me !!

It's too silly and obvious an assertion to formalize. "Water is wet."

Obviously the criteria of happiness varies enormously, and what is a satisfying, rewarding lifestyle to one person might be Hell on Earth to others.

So how should one decide? And what is the sanity check?

?!
"Words mean things." Rush Limbaugh





Some people don't mind punching a clock.
But even when I was earning a steady paycheck, there were things I enjoyed doing more; sailing the yacht for example.

So if one is to faithfully follow your formula quoted verbatim immediately above, when one is commuting to work, should such enlightened persons skip the job, board the yacht, and enjoy the day sailing instead?
That would seem to be a faithful implementation of your formula.

Thanks.
Perhaps.
But I'm not.
I provided that as information, as context. I didn't offer it as a basis to justify skipping work, risking being fired.

Oh.
Thanks.
Yeah, astrophysics, not my strong suit. But it's the red giant part that matters.

Your formulation here indicates that you most likely do not understand "contentment"...nor the idea of "playing the cards you are dealt to the best advantage possible...even if it means folding."

Fine.

As nearly as I can see, one works it (contentment, if not happiness) out for one's self...rather than attempting to make a generalized statement of how it should work for everyone.

I commented on your theme...and leave you to what you will make of your own life.

 

[Cypress]

C #17

You've reminded me:

But Leo Toystore is a good reference two.

"Broad-mindedness is the result of flattening high-mindedness out." George Saintsbury

Nicely done.

The thing that appeals to me about the Tolstoyan philosophy is that a life well lived is not measured in material possessions, superficial activities, and physical comforts - aka, things that can be quantified and measured.
I believe it comes down to a quest for the intangibles of truth, knowledge, and respect for one's self and for others. Those seemingly simple things can take a life time trying to attain.