Harley Davidson shutting down US factory, moving jobs to Bangkok ................

cawacko said:
To understand if we are on the same page, did you see the Snopes article I posted? It shows Bourbon OP is a lie. Do you disagree with that?
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I've been googling and can't find anything from HD in 2015 saying they planned to move overseas. All I saw were articles about cutting jobs and moving jobs from York to KC.
 
christiefan915 said:
I've been googling and can't find anything from HD in 2015 saying they planned to move overseas. All I saw were articles about cutting jobs and moving jobs from York to KC.
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What about the Snopes article I posted? Snopes isn't some right-wing site so I don't know why they would lie about this.
 
cawacko said:
What about the Snopes article I posted? Snopes isn't some right-wing site so I don't know why they would lie about this.
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I read the Snopes article. Let me cite two paragraphs. In 2015 HD planned on consolidating production in KC. In 2017 HD announced opening a plant in Thailand.

"It is also true that Harley-Davidson will soon be closing a plant in Kansas City, Missouri. However, these items are not directly related. In fact, Harley has planned on consolidating production at the Kansas City plant since 2015, before Trump was even in office; when the company made the announcement, it said that it was due to slowing motorcycle sales:

Harley-Davidson’s sales fell sharply in 2017 and the company will move ahead with a plan to consolidate manufacturing operations, including the closure of its Kansas City, Mo. plant.
The world’s largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles has struggled to reverse a four-year sales slide, with growth overseas somewhat helping offset a decline in the U.S. bike market.
​

Additionally, Harley-Davidson announced in 2017 that it would be opening a manufacturing plant in Thailand. However, Harley said at the time that the decision was made to better serve the burgeoning market in southeast Asia, and that the decision would not affect manufacturing in the United States:

Also, HD is getting a tax break in Thailand: The plant would let Milwaukee-based Harley-Davidson avoid Thailand's up to 60 percent tariff on imported motorcycles and help it get tax breaks when exporting to Thailand's neighbors, thanks to a trade arrangement among members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nation (ASEAN).

And what about this? On the heels of the announcement of the closure, the company announced a $700 million stock buy-back of 15 million shares after seeing their tax rate drop approximately 10 percent under the Republican-passed tax deal.
 
cawacko said:
I have no clue but as far as SF and I that's what we were discussing. The dishonesty of the OP.
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It's not dishonest. This is how HD gained from the tax cut. "On the heels of the announcement of the closure, the company announced a $700 million stock buy-back of 15 million shares after seeing their tax rate drop approximately 10 percent under the Republican-passed tax deal."
 
christiefan915 said:
I read the Snopes article. Let me cite two paragraphs. In 2015 HD planned on consolidating production in KC. In 2017 HD announced opening a plant in Thailand.

"It is also true that Harley-Davidson will soon be closing a plant in Kansas City, Missouri. However, these items are not directly related. In fact, Harley has planned on consolidating production at the Kansas City plant since 2015, before Trump was even in office; when the company made the announcement, it said that it was due to slowing motorcycle sales:

Harley-Davidson’s sales fell sharply in 2017 and the company will move ahead with a plan to consolidate manufacturing operations, including the closure of its Kansas City, Mo. plant.
The world’s largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles has struggled to reverse a four-year sales slide, with growth overseas somewhat helping offset a decline in the U.S. bike market.
​

Additionally, Harley-Davidson announced in 2017 that it would be opening a manufacturing plant in Thailand. However, Harley said at the time that the decision was made to better serve the burgeoning market in southeast Asia, and that the decision would not affect manufacturing in the United States:

Also, HD is getting a tax break in Thailand: The plant would let Milwaukee-based Harley-Davidson avoid Thailand's up to 60 percent tariff on imported motorcycles and help it get tax breaks when exporting to Thailand's neighbors, thanks to a trade arrangement among members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nation (ASEAN).

And what about this? On the heels of the announcement of the closure, the company announced a $700 million stock buy-back of 15 million shares after seeing their tax rate drop approximately 10 percent under the Republican-passed tax deal.
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The OP says HP is closing a plant in KC because of the tax cut. That's what rawstory was trying to sell. That's a flat out lie. That's what this stupid discussion is about.
 
christiefan915 said:
It's not dishonest. This is how HD gained from the tax cut. "On the heels of the announcement of the closure, the company announced a $700 million stock buy-back of 15 million shares after seeing their tax rate drop approximately 10 percent under the Republican-passed tax deal."
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They didn't close the KC plant because of the tax cut. I know i'm not smart but how did HD know in 2015 there was a tax cut coming in 2017 so they decided to close their plant?
 
cawacko said:
The OP says HP is closing a plant in KC because of the tax cut. That's what rawstory was trying to sell. That's a flat out lie. That's what this stupid discussion is about.
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I know this is futile but here's the headline. Harley Davidson is shutting down a US factory and moving jobs to Bangkok after cashing in on Trump’s tax cut

The cashing in comes from HD's buy-back of 15 million shares after their tax rate dropped. Also the false part of the Snopes article headline is about closing a plant in Wisconsin, not KC.
 
christiefan915 said:
I know this is futile but here's the headline. Harley Davidson is shutting down a US factory and moving jobs to Bangkok after cashing in on Trump’s tax cut

The cashing in comes from HD's buy-back of 15 million shares after their tax rate dropped. Also the false part of the Snopes article headline is about closing a plant in Wisconsin, not KC.
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Re-Read the first paragraph of the Rawstory article and what Bourbon wrote. It attempts to say the closing of the plant was decided after the tax cut. That is false. That decision was made in 2015.

Stock buyback is something separate
 
cawacko said:
Re-Read the first paragraph of the Rawstory article and what Bourbon wrote. It attempts to say the closing of the plant was decided after the tax cut. That is false. That decision was made in 2015.

Stock buyback is something separate
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Yes it is but it resulted from cashing in on the tax cut. I guess you and I are reading the article differently.
 
The real argument is trump said companies would not be moving abroad because of the tax cut and slashing regulations. Carrier and HD are proving that those are of no consequence in moving. It was just a free handout of tax dollars so they could buy back stock. The argument that they were planning the move awhile holds no water. The point of the tax cut was that companies would change their minds and stay. Remember when Trumpy was at Carrier and that made a promise they would stay because of his rules? They moved. But they got a pocket full of money and tax breaks.
 
Nordberg said:
The real argument is trump said companies would not be moving abroad because of the tax cut and slashing regulations. Carrier and HD are proving that those are of no consequence in moving. It was just a free handout of tax dollars so they could buy back stock. The argument that they were planning the move awhile holds no water. The point of the tax cut was that companies would change their minds and stay. Remember when Trumpy was at Carrier and that made a promise they would stay because of his rules? They moved. But they got a pocket full of money and tax breaks.
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Sure, lying in a post and in an article isn't important to you when it fits your agenda. Great principle you have there
 
cawacko said:
When you read the first paragraph does it not imply they are closing the plant because of the tax cut?
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"Despite President Donald Trump’s claim that massive tax cuts will boost U.S. employment numbers, motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson instead announced a plant closing, followed by a massive stock buy-back and is now shifting some jobs to Thailand."

The way I read it is that trump's been saying this for years as a talking point and it doesn't refer to the one he pushed through a few months ago. Now if it had been written like this I'd think differently:

"Although Donald Trump claims his 2017 tax cut will boost U.S. employment numbers, motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson instead announced a plant closing, followed by a massive stock buy-back and is now shifting some jobs to Thailand."

We just don't interpret it the same way.
 
christiefan915 said:
"Despite President Donald Trump’s claim that massive tax cuts will boost U.S. employment numbers, motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson instead announced a plant closing, followed by a massive stock buy-back and is now shifting some jobs to Thailand."

The way I read it is that trump's been saying this for years as a talking point and it doesn't refer to the one he pushed through a few months ago. Now if it had been written like this I'd think differently:

"Although Donald Trump claims his 2017 tax cut will boost U.S. employment numbers, motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson instead announced a plant closing, followed by a massive stock buy-back and is now shifting some jobs to Thailand."

We just don't interpret it the same way.
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"They instead announced a plant closing". Yes, one conceived in 2015. It's what rawstory does. It's why it's not a credible site and appeals to the fringe.
 
Legion said:
You don't?

In his acceptance of the DEMOCRAT presidential nomination last Thursday, Senator Barack Obama promised to deny tax breaks to companies that send American jobs overseas. Obama said that as president, he "will stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America."

https://www.cio.com/article/2433945/offshoring/obama-speaks-out-against-offshore-outsourcing.html
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HAIL OBAMA!
 
Legion said:
He didn't follow through, Brother.

"Ending tax deductions for companies shipping jobs overseas, and using the saving to create a new tax credit for companies that bring jobs home."

Source: "A Plan for Jobs and Middle-Class Security"

obameter_promiseBroken.jpg



We rate this Promise Broken.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/1113/end-tax-deductions-companies-offshore/
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So you say.
 
christiefan915 said:
"Despite President Donald Trump’s claim that massive tax cuts will boost U.S. employment numbers, motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson instead announced a plant closing, followed by a massive stock buy-back and is now shifting some jobs to Thailand."

The way I read it is that trump's been saying this for years as a talking point and it doesn't refer to the one he pushed through a few months ago. Now if it had been written like this I'd think differently:

"Although Donald Trump claims his 2017 tax cut will boost U.S. employment numbers, motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson instead announced a plant closing, followed by a massive stock buy-back and is now shifting some jobs to Thailand."

We just don't interpret it the same way.
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That's because ​they have poor reading comprehension.
 
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