We Are Not Collecting Enough Taxes. And Still The Debt Rises; Despite Strong Economy.

[Darth Omar]

I don’t know about you, but I want it documented what medical care I have received. Insurance companies are a lot of the problem, they require documentation and doctors offices have taken on the practice of filing insurance claims for people in order to receive payment. Electronic record keeping is racing the record keeping burden.

Don’t get me started with that lol.

It’s gotten so bad they have to staff OR rooms with two RN’s just so one of them can sit at the computer and manage—whatever the hell it is they’re doing, while we operate and are *taking care of the patient*. Not that it’s their fault but it’s becoming absurd.

It’s become the butt of a joke—‘we offer the best computer care in town’ lol.

And it’s getting worse and not better.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello tsuke,

as i understand it were actually collecting more taxes than ever right?

Yes and No. There was a temporary bump after the tax break when some foreign funds were repatriated. That didn't last. Revenue is up but spending is up more. So in relative terms, revenue is down. We need to collect more taxes.

Look at the OP link:

US Debt Clock

This is a wonderfully informative tool. If you hover over a figure it gives an explanation. Hover over the revenue box. Revenue is rising. It indicates it is up 74%. Hover over that. It says that is the increase since year 2000. Well, of course it is up since then. Our economy is much larger. There are more people earning more money than 18 years ago.

The revenue is $3.4 Trillion. The spending is $4.2 Trillion. We are not collecting enough revenue to cover the spending. Many would say the spending is too high. Republicans like to say that. But they control all three branches of government and they have been unable to reduce the spending. Actually, they have increased it. The spending is needed. It can't be reduced without hurting the economy. So we need to have more revenue.

We are simply not collecting enough taxes.

 

[Irish Exit]

I don’t know about you, but I want it documented what medical care I have received. Insurance companies are a lot of the problem, they require documentation and doctors offices have taken on the practice of filing insurance claims for people in order to receive payment. Electronic record keeping is racing the record keeping burden.

Insurance companies LOL. 50K+ pages of new regulations by the government with Obamacare passed onto "the insurance companies" alone. Add in existing medicaid/medicare requirements, etc etc etc. Had a relative who had an extended hospital stay after a ruptured AAA who recovered, went on a few years, died from something else, and had been dead for a year and their crap was still randomly being sent back by the government which triggered bills to the patient, which triggered telephone calls, etc all because of coding errors. They would find one, and kick it back. They would then find the next one, and kick it back. They then would find the next one, and kick it back. It wouldn't surprise me if it show up yet again just because I dared speak of it. Last time it happened I was, well, he is still dead and you are now beyond the statute of limitations to sue him anyway, so that is between you and Uncle Sam.

 

[tsuke]

Hello tsuke,



Yes and No. There was a temporary bump after the tax break when some foreign funds were repatriated. That didn't last. Revenue is up but spending is up more. So in relative terms, revenue is down. We need to collect more taxes.

Look at the OP link:

US Debt Clock

This is a wonderfully informative tool. If you hover over a figure it gives an explanation. Hover over the revenue box. Revenue is rising. It indicates it is up 74%. Hover over that. It says that is the increase since year 2000. Well, of course it is up since then. Our economy is much larger. There are more people earning more money than 18 years ago.

The revenue is $3.4 Trillion. The spending is $4.2 Trillion. We are not collecting enough revenue to cover the spending. Many would say the spending is too high. Republicans like to say that. But they control all three branches of government and they have been unable to reduce the spending. Actually, they have increased it. The spending is needed. It can't be reduced without hurting the economy. So we need to have more revenue.

We are simply not collecting enough taxes.

if revenue is up then we have a spending problem. Also if reducing spending would hurt the economy then increasing taxes would do so as well.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello rjhenn, and good to hear from you,

What we need is to raise taxes enough to eliminate the deficit, with a bit left over to start paying off the debt.

Ideally that would be the case.

Republicans want to eliminate the deficit by cutting taxes, then cutting spending enough to completely tank the economy.

That never works. President Clinton was so fiscally responsible that a surplus was actually generated by year 2000. If you play with the feature of the US Debt Clock website in the upper right corner, you will find a 'time machine'. Punch on that for year 2000, and you will see that there was a surplus then. There is no box for 'deficit' then. It has been replaced by 'surplus.' Also notice that the debt figure is dropping. (How wonderful!) We managed to begin paying down the debt then, and we can do it again. Revenue was higher than spending. That was under a Democrat.

Then along came Bush and 8 years later we had a crash. An economic disaster which took Obama years of careful management to bring us gradually out of. Trump is in the process of wiping out all the gains under Obama, and running the debt sky high.

Since Trump took over, the debt has gone from $20 Trillion to $21.5 Trillion. He said he could wipe out the debt. He is doing the exact opposite. Trump loves debt. He would be nothing without it. He is sticking the US taxpayer with big debt, and profiting personally from the office. We would be far better off under Bill Clinton or Barack Obama than we are under Donald Trump.

This 'great economy' is temporary. It can't last. A house of cards. It is all going to come crashing down and when it does it is going to be a big crash. The longer that is delayed, the bigger the crash will be.

 

[Phantasmal]

Don’t get me started with that lol.

It’s gotten so bad they have to staff OR rooms with two RN’s just so one of them can sit at the computer and manage—whatever the hell it is they’re doing, while we operate and are *taking care of the patient*. Not that it’s their fault but it’s becoming absurd.

It’s become the butt of a joke—‘we offer the best computer care in town’ lol.

And it’s getting worse and not better.

How do you propose records to be kept? Do you want record keeping to be done away? This is what I don’t understand, you have to keep records. I want my healthcare documented, so what do you propose. Medicine is much more complicated these days then when you were giving Dr. a chicken to treat you? What do you purpose be done so that I have records of what was done to me, and doctors have more time to treat patients?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Controlled Opposition,

We could cut "defense" spending by half and still be the most powerful nation on earth.

I know, right?

Unfortunately, a lot of people owe their income to defense spending. Whatever we do has to be done gradually.

 

[Phantasmal]

Insurance companies LOL. 50K+ pages of new regulations by the government with Obamacare passed onto "the insurance companies" alone. Add in existing medicaid/medicare requirements, etc etc etc. Had a relative who had an extended hospital stay after a ruptured AAA who recovered, went on a few years, died from something else, and had been dead for a year and their crap was still randomly being sent back by the government which triggered bills to the patient, which triggered telephone calls, etc all because of coding errors. They would find one, and kick it back. They would then find the next one, and kick it back. They then would find the next one, and kick it back. It wouldn't surprise me if it show up yet again just because I dared speak of it. Last time it happened I was, well, he is still dead and you are now beyond the statute of limitations to sue him anyway, so that is between you and Uncle Sam.

This is done to protect the patient and the doctors. Do you have a solution? Patient readmittance to hospitals has improved because of the ACA. Medicare fraud had been lowered because of the ACA. What is your solution to protect both the doctor, patient and your tax dollars?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Kacper,

No debt=No intergovernmental holdings
No debt=No ability to regulate inflation
No debt=Destabilization of the bond market
No debt=No benchmark for interest rates

If we had no debt, the world would just abandon the dollar for another country's currency to be the basis of everything.

This is absolutely true.

It's hard for deficit and debt hawks to comprehend. Some debt is a good thing. Without debt, most home owners would not be able to own a home, or certainly not as nice of a home.

Home ownership is the primary vehicle to wealth for most people.

Our problem is not so much that we have national debt, it is that the ratio of that debt to the size of our economy is unhealthy.

We have this figure called Debt/GDP ratio.

Just as a home owner builds wealth by owning a home, that homeowner can't try to own too expensive a home or it is impossible to keep up with payments and he could go bankrupt and lose everything.

If the USA tries to take on too much debt, the economy struggles to generate enough revenue to service that debt. That's why the debt/GDP ratio is important.

Right now, the USA has more debt than our economy generates in a single year. The OP website US Debt Clock gives this figure. It is 104.66%

That is irresponsibly high. We can still carry debt, as long as our economy grows faster than the debt. That's not happening.

And we have a ticking time bomb in interest rates. If interest rates rise, so does the interest on our national debt. That makes it even harder to pay it off.

If we raised minimum wage, more people would earn more money and be paying more taxes. And they would fail to qualify for the dole. That would reduce spending and raise revenue, exactly what is needed. If we also raised taxes on the rich and on big corporations, it would generate more revenue as well. That would be the most obvious way to boost the economy in a healthy way and conduct our national budget in a fiscally responsible way.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

According to my link the manufacturing sector takes a positive view of Trump’s regulatory management.

That's nice. I'm sure they're pleased as punch, as HHH used to say.

Apparently you are unable to list even one regulation (or removal) that has improved business. That's okay though. Our corporate plutocrats want us to continue to believe that as long as we look the other way and leave them alone and don't try to tax them, they'll continue to shower us with largesse.

 

[Jack]

Hello Jack,



It makes sense if you are only thinking of yourself.

The 'Shareholding/Ownership' Class thinks about themselves and their families. (Why would they concern themselves with the 'Serfs'?)

 

[Jack]

Hello Jack,



I know who Congress works for and I am hoping to find out how to change that.

The widely accepted solution is to take 'Money' out of Politics.

 

[anatta]

That's nice. I'm sure they're pleased as punch, as HHH used to say.

Apparently you are unable to list even one regulation (or removal) that has improved business. That's okay though. Our corporate plutocrats want us to continue to believe that as long as we look the other way and leave them alone and don't try to tax them, they'll continue to shower us with largesse.

it's called a "regulatory enviornment" that business looks at. It's an ipso facto demonstration that business has improved thanks to deregulations ( as shown on the other thread - )

 

[anatta]

How do you propose records to be kept? Do you want record keeping to be done away? This is what I don’t understand, you have to keep records. I want my healthcare documented, so what do you propose. Medicine is much more complicated these days then when you were giving Dr. a chicken to treat you? What do you purpose be done so that I have records of what was done to me, and doctors have more time to treat patients?

not an expert on this but SP is supposed to have "universal coding" -why private insurance cannot do the same?,,,

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nifty,

The most civilized nations in the world have the highest taxes,

but also deliver the most bang for the tax buck.

They provide education and healthcare,

but don't waste trillions on wars that accomplish nothing other than to enrich war profiteers.


There are no moderate or subtle solutions to America's problems.

We turn hard left politically, or we perish--sooner rather than later.

The ball's in our court.

I think we need to go left but there would be a danger in going hard left. It needs to be gradual for the best and most enduring results. Conservatives need time to see that it works. Otherwise it just fires them up with propaganda and we swing back hard the other way again. These gyrations are highly destructive in the long run.

 

[Irish Exit]

This is done to protect the patient and the doctors. Do you have a solution? Patient readmittance to hospitals has improved because of the ACA. Medicare fraud had been lowered because of the ACA. What is your solution to protect both the doctor, patient and your tax dollars?

Leechings and over the counter euthanasia drugs.

 

[Phantasmal]

Leechings and over the counter euthanasia drugs.

You first

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Darth,

This one isn’t lol.

Had Obama cut the size of the regulatory state like Trump has done [and what the TP was calling for, for years] he could have won some of us over. But Obama went into hyper-regulatory overdrive—it’s a big reason the recovery wasn’t as strong as it could have been.

But when tax cuts spur economic growth—like this has done, that increases revenues and since more people are working it cuts the costs of entitlements as well.

That has not happened because the jobs don't pay enough to live on. Thus we have full time workers who qualify for the dole. The result is wealth extraction. Taxpayers are paying for the workers who are making the rich richer. Thus, money is flowing from taxpayers to the super-rich. The Class War in action.

Trump cut taxes AND decreased the regulatory burden on businesses. That’s going to improve the economy—and it’s nearly a given.

That’s a win for the Tea Party.

Thus proving that what the Tea Party wants is not sustainable. Because the 'great economy' is not generating enough revenue to reduce the Debt/GDP ratio.

It's fool's gold. It can't last. The crash is coming. It's only a matter of time. And in your heart, you know I am right.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Here is a good website for keeping track of the debt and the deficit:

US Debt Clock

The debt is now nearly $21.5 Trillion. It was about $20 Trillion when Trump took over.

Notice the box with the deficit. It continues to rise.

That means the economy is not (as Republicans promised,) generating enough taxes to pay down the debt.

Democrats pointed this out when Republicans wanted to raid the piggy bank with the recent tax cut for the rich, but Republicans would not listen. Republicans said the expanding economy would make up for the shortfall. It hasn't. Republicans were wrong. The deficit continues to rise.

That's bad. It fell under Obama and Clinton.

Not only are we not paying down the debt, we continue to borrow more and more, just to run the government. We cannot live on borrowed tax cuts.

The situation cannot continue. We can not ignore this like the Republicans want to do. The Republican approach is irresponsible. We have to support Democrats who promise fiscal responsibility.

We have to raise taxes on the rich. They are the only ones with enough spare income to reverse this.

We DO NOT have to raise taxes on the rich. Raising taxes should NEVER be the answer. The first option should always be to REDUCE GOVERNMENT SPENDING, not raise taxes.
I worked for a government contractor for 10 years and I can tell you without hesitation that the federal government wastes money like you wouldn't believe. It is the most inefficient, wasteful, bureaucratic entity in the history of government. Why would you want them to take more money out of the private sector by raising taxes and let it be wasted in the deep, dark hole of bureaucracy? That will solve nothing. The federal government has to learn to spend within its means rather than punish Americans by raising taxes. I will NEVER vote for a candidate that pledges to raise taxes for any reason.
It's like having a child in college that's spending frivolously and irresponsibly. When he says he needs you to put more money into his checking account, the smart thing to do would be to tell him to rein in his spending, not give him more money. I speak from experience on this.

 

[91390andlovingit]

exactly, GOP fat cat presidents and Congress have delivered the largest wealth gap in history, even bigger than in the Robber Baron days

And Obama dindu nuffin ......