What's causing rising debt?

[Lightbringer]

#260, you're a bit of a pussy.

 

[Lightbringer]

Awwwwwwww....little tiny Nordberg is angry. lol. Ok, bring it.

 

[Oneuli]

Why all this sudden concern over deficits and debt? You supported a divisive inexperienced fool for eight years that spent us into almost ten trillion additional debt and defended it all. More than ALL the Presidents before him.

Same question for you; when have tax increases led to lower debt and balanced budgets?

In the Obama era, deficits were less of a pressing concern, since they were falling rapidly -- maybe too rapidly, in light of orthodox economic opinion about using deficit spending to address inadequate aggregate demand when up against the zero lower bound for interest rates, in a situation with elevated unemployment. But now deficits are a more pressing worry (other than for right-wing know-nothings, of course), because deficits are rising rapidly, even at a time when orthodox economic opinion says we should get our fiscal house in order, given the relatively strong economy.

 

[Lightbringer]

In the Obama era, deficits were less of a pressing concern, since they were falling rapidly -- maybe too rapidly, in light of orthodox economic opinion about using deficit spending to address inadequate aggregate demand when up against the zero lower bound for interest rates, in a situation with elevated unemployment. But now deficits are a more pressing worry (other than for right-wing know-nothings, of course), because deficits are rising rapidly, even at a time when orthodox economic opinion says we should get our fiscal house in order, given the relatively strong economy.

One President....over half of the debt...that's what he was talking about.

 

[Nordberg]

The Repubs crank up the debt as a long term plan to fundamentally change America into a plutocracy. It was started with Reagan and continued with every Repub president since. McConnell and Ryan said it clearly. The debt is allowing them to slash programs for the poor and needy. It also is a shot at slashing Medicare, and Social security. Even rightys can figure out who that hurts. End food stamps. It might cost the wealthy a couple bucks.
The Repubs on top envision a different America with the power residing in the few, the powerful and wealthy. You guys vote for it. So it will happen.
The math is simple. Slash taxes and jack up military spending and programs that help those on top like capital gains. Then the debt grows and grows. Trump is doing that. he is after another cut for the wealthy right now. It is only fair, god chose them to be wealthy and powerful.

 

[LV426]

Tax cuts.

That's the cause.

 

[Oneuli]

One President....over half of the debt...that's what he was talking about.

We're on pace to run up even more debt under Trump, despite him having inherited a strong and growing economy, which is a situation where we'd ordinarily expect deficits to be falling. Yet, for some reason, Republicans no longer care about deficits the way they liked to pretend they did between January 20, 2009 and January 20, 2017.

 

[Oneuli]

Tax cuts.

That's the cause.

Yep -- that's the lion's share of it. However, military spending growth has also been a factor.

 

[Truth Detector]

In the Obama era, deficits were less of a pressing concern, since they were falling rapidly -- maybe too rapidly,

I cannot imagine a statement more separated from reality or the truth. They were RISING exponentially you ignorant buffoon. The only reason they were falling is the FACT that they were already exponentially high.

What part of Obama had higher accumulated debt more than ALL of the Presidents before him? Dunce.

....in light of orthodox economic opinion about using deficit spending to address inadequate aggregate demand when up against the zero lower bound for interest rates, in a situation with elevated unemployment.

I am amused by the equally moronic and asinine claim that Government can SPEND its way out of a recession and into full employment.

But now deficits are a more pressing worry (other than for right-wing know-nothings, of course), because deficits are rising rapidly, even at a time when orthodox economic opinion says we should get our fiscal house in order, given the relatively strong economy.

They are no more pressing than they should have been during Obamunisms massive increase snowflake. STFU, seriously. Your lack of intelligence is painfully obvious and only surpassed by your dishonesty and reprehensible lying.

 

[Truth Detector]

The Repubs crank up the debt as a long term plan to fundamentally change America into a plutocracy. It was started with Reagan and continued with every Repub president since. McConnell and Ryan said it clearly. The debt is allowing them to slash programs for the poor and needy. It also is a shot at slashing Medicare, and Social security. Even rightys can figure out who that hurts. End food stamps. It might cost the wealthy a couple bucks.
The Repubs on top envision a different America with the power residing in the few, the powerful and wealthy. You guys vote for it. So it will happen.
The math is simple. Slash taxes and jack up military spending and programs that help those on top like capital gains. Then the debt grows and grows. Trump is doing that. he is after another cut for the wealthy right now. It is only fair, god chose them to be wealthy and powerful.

Another moronic rambling bloviation from a lying lunatic and fool.

 

[Truth Detector]

Tax cuts.

That's the cause.

WRONG; because revenue has increased after the tax cuts. Another idiot who cannot comprehend basic math.

 

[sear]

"Why all this sudden concern over deficits and debt?" TD #254

"Sudden".
I was conservative before I graduated high school in 1973.
I joined this forum in Sept. 2016.

If you think I've ever taken a non-conservative fiscal position, please QUOTE my exact posted words.

But I know you won't, because
I know you can't, because
I know I didn't.

"Why all this sudden concern over deficits and debt?" TD #254

I don't make you look foolish TD. You take care of that all by yourself.

"You supported a divisive inexperienced fool for eight years that spent us into almost ten trillion additional debt and defended it all. More than ALL the Presidents before him." TD #254

"Supported"?!
I write checks to the IRS. You don't?

"Same question for you; when have tax increases led to lower debt and balanced budgets?" TD

It's not my job to educate you.
But it is as simple as arithmetic. When spending exceeds revenues, as it does in this Republican government, the deficit and debt grow.

To balance the budget we can increase revenue, with Laffer in mind.
Or we can decrease expenditures.
Either can balance the budget.
And perhaps some of both is in order.

I'm with conservative George Will on it 100%!

"What's pernicious about deficits for conservatives is this. It makes big government cheap. What we're doing, we're turning to the country, the "conservative" administration turns to the country and says: We're going to give you a dollar's worth of government, we're going to charge you seventy five cents for it. And we're going to let your kids pay the other quarter." George Will Nov 30, 2003

Pseudo-cons like you pretend to conservatism, often for the prestige that genuine conservatives like me have earned.
You want the prestige, but you lack the character to earn it.
I'm a fiscal conservative both personally & politically. Tip-toeing around reality doesn't balance our federal budget.
- Cut spending.
- Raise tax revenue.
I've got my preference. But that we stop stealing from our grandchildren is more important to me than which approach we take. Our deficits are unethical.

PS

"Why all this sudden concern over deficits and debt?" TD #254

"Sudden".
It's obvious your fantasy world is richly textured.
You have embarrassed yourself mightily here. If you think I've ever been anything but a fiscal conservative, QUOTE ME !!

 

[Truth Detector]

We're on pace to run up even more debt under Trump, despite him having inherited a strong and growing economy, which is a situation where we'd ordinarily expect deficits to be falling. Yet, for some reason, Republicans no longer care about deficits the way they liked to pretend they did between January 20, 2009 and January 20, 2017.

Another strawman scarecrow; Republicans most certainly care more about deficit spending and are the only party to reign it in over four decades. But now, with all the mandated spending of Obamacare and Medicare spending increases due to massive increases in our medical costs in spite of Obamacare and its promises, combined with the massive interest cost from the deficits Obama ran up, our spending continues to outpace revenue increases.

 

[Truth Detector]

Tax cuts.

That's the cause.

Yep -- that's the lion's share of it. However, military spending growth has also been a factor.

Two liberal morons who can't do math.

 

[sear]

PS

"revenue has increased after the tax cuts. Another idiot who cannot comprehend basic math." TD #271

Perhaps.
But the Laffer curve is not "basic math". Cutting tax rates can indeed increase tax revenue. But only down to the Laffer curve peak. Below that, and tax cuts cut revenue.

 

[Lightbringer]

We're on pace to run up even more debt under Trump, despite him having inherited a strong and growing economy, which is a situation where we'd ordinarily expect deficits to be falling. Yet, for some reason, Republicans no longer care about deficits the way they liked to pretend they did between January 20, 2009 and January 20, 2017.

When it happens let me know.

 

[Truth Detector]

"Sudden".
I was conservative before I graduated high school in 1973.

Liar; you've never been a conservative. You erupt with too much simple minded stupidity to have been one.

I joined this forum in Sept. 2016.

So fucking what?

If you think I've ever taken a non-conservative fiscal position, please QUOTE my exact posted words.

Show me the links to your concerns over deficit spending during Obamunism then.

I don't make you look foolish TD. You take care of that all by yourself.

Ironic coming from a loon who makes himself look like a moron every damned day on this forum. So tell me snowflake, did you vote for Obama twice? Yes or no?

I write checks to the IRS. You don't?

I am willing to bet my checks to the IRS are far larger than your checks and that my combined annual household income far surpasses your own. But then, WTF is your point here?

Don't make asinine ASSumptions without facts snowflake.

It's not my job to educate you.

You couldn't educate a wet paper sack snowflake.

But it is as simple as arithmetic. When spending exceeds revenues, as it does in this Republican government, the deficit and debt grow.

Another brain dead asinine claim; that Democratic controlled government doesn't have deficits. Are you really this stupid? Or do you work at it snowflake?

To balance the budget we can increase revenue, with Laffer in mind.

But we don't need to increase revenue; we already have that. We need to reduce spending. Why is that concept beyond your "peter principle?"

Can you find me one time where tax increases led to decreases in deficit spending?

Or we can decrease expenditures.
Either can balance the budget.
And perhaps some of both is in order.

The idea that we need to confiscate greater sums of taxpayers hard earned wealth is the failed mindset of the left. What we need is LESS Government spending and reduce the size of Government to match its Constitutionally determined responsibility.

NO tax increase has ever led to reduced deficit spending or increased prosperity.

I'm with conservative George Will on it 100%!

Neither you, nor George Will are conservatives.

Pseudo-cons like you pretend to conservatism, often for the prestige that genuine conservatives like me have earned.
You want the prestige, but you lack the character to earn it.
I'm a fiscal conservative both personally & politically. Tip-toeing around reality doesn't balance our federal budget.
- Cut spending.
- Raise tax revenue.
I've got my preference. But that we stop stealing from our grandchildren is more important to me than which approach we take. Our deficits are unethical.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....yet here you are sounding like a brain dead leftist on steroids with your shrill stupid message of raising taxes on the wealthy which has NEVER EVER solved the deficit problem. How stupid are you?

You have embarrassed yourself mightily here. If you think I've ever been anything but a fiscal conservative, QUOTE ME !!

It's obvious you're too stupid to rightly be embarrassed by the stupidity you erupt with.

 

[Truth Detector]

PS
Perhaps.
But the Laffer curve is not "basic math". Cutting tax rates can indeed increase tax revenue. But only down to the Laffer curve peak. Below that, and tax cuts cut revenue.

PS; when SPENDING outpaces REVENUE increases, you will have a deficit. Therefore, you need to REDUCE spending. It's obvious you don't know what the Laffer curve is or means.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The Republicans are engaged in their usual two-step swindle. Step one, they give massive tax handouts to the rich and spending increases for their buddies in the military industries. Step two, they say the resulting run-up in debt requires austerity measures to be taken when it comes to programs that regular Americans rely on, like Social Security and Medicare. Mitch McConnell insists that cuts to those things are needed, because they're what's causing the problem. Let's test that rhetoric.

Here's what the budget projections looked like the day Trump took office:

https://web.archive.org/web/2017012...hitehouse.archives.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Here they are now:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

As you can see, when Trump was coming in, the anticipated gross federal debt, as of FY 2019 (the fiscal year we're currently in) was 103.2% of GDP and falling. But now it's 108.1% and rising. Clearly, things have taken a turn for the worse. But why?

Well, dig into the numbers and you'll see it isn't Medicare. When Obama left office, Medicare spending for FY 2019 was projected to be $663 billion. Now it's estimated at $631 billion. Medicare has actually wound up being about 5% cheaper than we were expecting it would be, back when we thought debt would now be lower as a share of GDP (and dropping).

It's not Social Security, either. Back when Trump was sworn in, we were projecting that Social Security would cost us $1.095 trillion this year, where now it looks like it'll cost $1.052 trillion. Again, Social Security is proving to be about 4% cheaper than we thought it would be, back when we thought debt would now be lower and falling.

It's not other social spending, either. For example, back when Trump first took office, the projection was that in FY 2019 we'd spend $127.9 billion on "education, training, employment, and social services." Now it looks like we'll spend $100.6 billion. That part of the budget is expected to be about 21% less expensive than previously anticipated. We're also on track to spend a lot less than we anticipated on income security, energy, natural resources and the environment, transportation, agriculture, and just about every other area of domestic spending.

So, why is it that debt is significantly higher than expected, and rising, when previously we thought by now we'd have a manageable and improving situation? Well, there are a couple reasons, neither of which have anything to do with the stuff Republicans want to talk about.

One is that our military spending -- which was already anticipated to be preposterous high -- has risen still higher. We're on track to spend about 15% more on "national defense" this year than we had anticipated (despite having anticipated a budget that would already have more than doubled the spending of all our potential adversaries combined). Veterans spending is also up a bit.

The big change, though, was from the tax cuts. Back when Trump came to office, we were projecting $4.095 trillion in receipts for FY 2019. Now we're on track for $3.422 trillion. That $673 billion shortfall more than accounts for the difference between where we thought our debt situation would be and where it is. Even as the government has become stingier and stingier when it comes to middle-class American needs, deficits have sky-rocketed, because of the tax changes.

Specifically, individual income tax receipts are down by a little over 15% compared to where they were projected to be (with the VAST majority of the change impacting the very wealthy), and corporate income tax receipts are down by a little over 57% compared to projections. Excise taxes have also plummeted, relative to projections, by about 29%. That last category includes a drop in taxes collected in relation to Obamacare (e.g., taxes on tanning services and medical devices), as well as a huge (56%) drop in excise taxes on tobacco, relative to the earlier 2019 projections.

So, don't fall for the Republican bullshit. The reason our debt is rising isn't because of Social Security and Medicare, much less other social spending programs. We're spending considerably less on those things than was projected, and yet we've moved from debt being a falling share of GDP, to it rising rapidly. That's about Republican-backed changes: higher military expenditures and lower taxes, especially for corporations and the wealthy.

Unfortunately, most political and budget reporters are innumerate. They didn't learn basic math in j-school, so they'll take the lazy way out and report this as a he-said, she-said thing. Effectively, they'll just be transcriptionists for the party leaders' respective talking points. But the budget numbers and history are available at the links I provided. You can follow up on your own and confirm what I've said. Medicare and Social Security are even more affordable now than we thought they'd be, but reckless upper-class tax cutting and obscene military overspend have broken the budget.

The laffer curve only comes into play at *very* high rates. Like 50%-70%+. We are no where near those rates. If someone wants to cut taxes, they must also accept the necessary reality of lower revenue. But they don't want to do that. They claim it will cause economic growth, but of course pumping debt money into the economy has an inflationary and growth causing effect in the short term! It would be the same if you increased spending without without increasing taxes!

 

[LV426]

We're on pace to run up even more debt under Trump, despite him having inherited a strong and growing economy, which is a situation where we'd ordinarily expect deficits to be falling. Yet, for some reason, Republicans no longer care about deficits the way they liked to pretend they did between January 20, 2009 and January 20, 2017.

Surprising no one, they never cared about debt and deficits other than to use as a political cudgel to attack Democrats and programs like Medicare and Social Security.

They've always hated those programs and since they can't legislate them away because they're popular and they work, they instead practice fiscal terrorism by deliberately inflating deficits.