cawacko
Well-known member
It isn’t money that is driving these people. It’s about building the best companies possible, money is just the scorecard.
Not everyone is wired the same way people like Bezos are and that’s not a bad thing
Money Truly Doesn't Buy Happiness - World's Richest Man Bezos Is Getting A Divorce...
- Thread starter PoliTalker
- Start date
It isn’t money that is driving these people. It’s about building the best companies possible, money is just the scorecard.
Not everyone is wired the same way people like Bezos are and that’s not a bad thing
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Well, you can't be a 'company' by yourself. If everybody worked for it and created a great company the results of that should be more equitably shared among those who worked for it.
cawacko
Well-known member
Millions of people can put books into a package. Millions of people can’t create great companies. I don’t have a number but I would guess thousands of Amazon workers are now millionaires. They are getting paid. But you have to be able to create value. Putting books into a package will earn you a paycheck but it won’t make you rich
yes i agree...I cited Cuba & Venezuela & Central America etc as examples of such failures.
Can you provide a prime example of a
A society has lots of wealth in the hands of very few people and lots of people without much wealth?
If you can it would be a miserable place like Cuba & Venezuela & Central America etc.
When you say "A society has lots of wealth in the hands of very few people and lots of people without much wealth?" ---I think of Las Vegas...do you know what it costs to Visit Disneyland?
:::::::::::::::::::
Googled "costs to Visit Disneyland?"
Real world estimates ranged from $200 per person per day
excluding travel at Disneyland,
to $3,500 for a five-day trip to Disney World,
including airfare.Aug 5, 2015
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello cawacko,
I understand the current relationship between employers and workers. I understand how Bezos has maximized his leverage on that. And he has done a marvelous job of creating a very profitable organization. Doing that took the work of everybody at Amazon. But their only incentive to work hard is nothing more than fear of losing their meager fixed income. Bezos has them over a barrel and he exploits that. They will work for very little compared to the value their work generates, Bezos pockets the difference. I believe he should share more of the results of that work with the ones whose labor generated it.
Back in the 60's executives earned 10-15 times the average worker. Now it's like 600 times. And it's headed even higher.
That's ridiculous. At some point we have to look at the big picture and see how efficient capitalism has become at exploitation.
Capitalism is a powerful engine of wealth. But it cannot be allowed to run free and wide open. It would destroy the market, destroy society. Like any engine, if allowed to run at full speed it will blow up. It requires regulation. That is government's job. I believe government is not doing it's job here. I believe there should be established a maximum ratio of executive take vs average worker take. If allowed to continue to rise it leads to a run-away situation where the limit is extreme wealth inequality. Completely inefficient. With most wealth in just a few hands, market activity slows down because people don't have much wealth to trade for things.
Extreme wealth inequality is a danger that pro-capitalists refuse to acknowledge. We are headed there. Economists are hitting alarm bells. Capitalists are as busy looking the other way as their were in 2008.
I understand the current relationship between employers and workers. I understand how Bezos has maximized his leverage on that. And he has done a marvelous job of creating a very profitable organization. Doing that took the work of everybody at Amazon. But their only incentive to work hard is nothing more than fear of losing their meager fixed income. Bezos has them over a barrel and he exploits that. They will work for very little compared to the value their work generates, Bezos pockets the difference. I believe he should share more of the results of that work with the ones whose labor generated it.
Back in the 60's executives earned 10-15 times the average worker. Now it's like 600 times. And it's headed even higher.
That's ridiculous. At some point we have to look at the big picture and see how efficient capitalism has become at exploitation.
Capitalism is a powerful engine of wealth. But it cannot be allowed to run free and wide open. It would destroy the market, destroy society. Like any engine, if allowed to run at full speed it will blow up. It requires regulation. That is government's job. I believe government is not doing it's job here. I believe there should be established a maximum ratio of executive take vs average worker take. If allowed to continue to rise it leads to a run-away situation where the limit is extreme wealth inequality. Completely inefficient. With most wealth in just a few hands, market activity slows down because people don't have much wealth to trade for things.
Extreme wealth inequality is a danger that pro-capitalists refuse to acknowledge. We are headed there. Economists are hitting alarm bells. Capitalists are as busy looking the other way as their were in 2008.
cawacko
Well-known member
One can work for the government if they want close to 100% job security. Otherwise nothing is gauranteed. Amazon is having to fight to get workers in some parts of their company.
Bezos isn’t pocketing the extra. He’s the wealthiest man in the world because Amazons stock is off the charts. Expectations for growth are sky high. (His salary is $81K)
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Wealth lust and extreme capitalism have become so efficient at wealth extraction that Americans no longer feel comfortable having large families. When people are not worried about wealth, they have more babies. But when people are concerned about being able to afford a home, a life and retirement, they don't believe they can afford large families. Americans are now having so few children that the birth rate is not enough to sustain the population.
"By CNN; Nick Viviani |
Posted: Fri 10:20 AM, Jan 11, 2019
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Americans are having fewer children. One report says the number of births was so low in 2017 that it wasn't enough to keep the population levels steady.
The National Center for Health Statistics released its report Thursday. The study finds that overall, the total fertility rate is 16% below what is considered the level needed for the population to replace itself."
US Birth Rate Too Low To Sustain Population
This is the result of extreme wealth inequality.
"By CNN; Nick Viviani |
Posted: Fri 10:20 AM, Jan 11, 2019
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Americans are having fewer children. One report says the number of births was so low in 2017 that it wasn't enough to keep the population levels steady.
The National Center for Health Statistics released its report Thursday. The study finds that overall, the total fertility rate is 16% below what is considered the level needed for the population to replace itself."
US Birth Rate Too Low To Sustain Population
This is the result of extreme wealth inequality.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
If capitalism was really working overall, Americans would be having enough babies to at least sustain the population level.
So much wealth extraction has taken place that people don't feel like they can afford babies.
Capitalism has extracted so much of the wealth of so many people that it is sucking the very life right out of the country.
All to make a few people incredibly rich.
Is that the real point of the USA? To make a few people really rich, and to cause the rest to feel like they can't even afford a family?
We all know about the millennials who are living in parent's basements, can't afford to pay off student loans, much less have their own home.
Kind of hard to build a family when you are homeless.
So much wealth extraction has taken place that people don't feel like they can afford babies.
Capitalism has extracted so much of the wealth of so many people that it is sucking the very life right out of the country.
All to make a few people incredibly rich.
Is that the real point of the USA? To make a few people really rich, and to cause the rest to feel like they can't even afford a family?
We all know about the millennials who are living in parent's basements, can't afford to pay off student loans, much less have their own home.
Kind of hard to build a family when you are homeless.
cawacko
Well-known member
To be clear, capitalism = crazy system correct?
Yup. Outdated by a hundred years now. Without it, we could all have prosperity.
cawacko
Well-known member
I think you’re on to something. Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Castro, Pol Pot et al just weren’t doing it right. How can we get someone such as yourself who would do it right as a leader on the world stage?
I wouldn't have fuhrers, for a start. Socialism is to be achieved by the world's working class, not the state capitalist bosses, you list as programmed. Heil McCarthy and Death to Truth!
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Good morning cawacko,
We've actually known this for a long time. That's why we don't have pure unbridled capitalism. We know we have to regulate it and mix it with the right amount of socialism. And that optimal balance keeps changing. The more drastic capitalism becomes, the more wealth sequestered out of circulation, the greater the need for more socialism.
Ultimately, capitalism will almost completely implode. Maybe Marx was right. As wealth inequality becomes more and more extreme, and most cannot support themselves, after most jobs are replaced by super-expensive AI robots which are owned by the rich for the purpose of eliminating labor costs and workers, capitalism will implode. When work doesn't support people or families (already happening,) there won't be enough customers for products. Consumerism will diminish and fade. Revenue will be insufficient to support the government (hint: that has already happened.)
Conservatives won't want to admit this. They are really good at fooling themselves. They will continue to believe the lie that they think there is a spending problem. They will claim we just have to cut taxes for the rich even more. They will find that won't work. Tax cutting will not improve consumerism. The economy will go into recession and then depression unless wealth is redistributed.
It is amazing how conservative fool themselves. They cut revenue, the debt went up, and they tell themselves we have a spending problem. Amazing.
Clearly it is a lack of revenue problem. And it is going to get so much worse that no amount of tax cutting will fix it.
We will be forced to vote them out and listen to Democrats. We are going to have to get more serious about Promoting the General Welfare.
Because promoting the exclusive elite welfare is destroying us.
We've actually known this for a long time. That's why we don't have pure unbridled capitalism. We know we have to regulate it and mix it with the right amount of socialism. And that optimal balance keeps changing. The more drastic capitalism becomes, the more wealth sequestered out of circulation, the greater the need for more socialism.
Ultimately, capitalism will almost completely implode. Maybe Marx was right. As wealth inequality becomes more and more extreme, and most cannot support themselves, after most jobs are replaced by super-expensive AI robots which are owned by the rich for the purpose of eliminating labor costs and workers, capitalism will implode. When work doesn't support people or families (already happening,) there won't be enough customers for products. Consumerism will diminish and fade. Revenue will be insufficient to support the government (hint: that has already happened.)
Conservatives won't want to admit this. They are really good at fooling themselves. They will continue to believe the lie that they think there is a spending problem. They will claim we just have to cut taxes for the rich even more. They will find that won't work. Tax cutting will not improve consumerism. The economy will go into recession and then depression unless wealth is redistributed.
It is amazing how conservative fool themselves. They cut revenue, the debt went up, and they tell themselves we have a spending problem. Amazing.
Clearly it is a lack of revenue problem. And it is going to get so much worse that no amount of tax cutting will fix it.
We will be forced to vote them out and listen to Democrats. We are going to have to get more serious about Promoting the General Welfare.
Because promoting the exclusive elite welfare is destroying us.
cawacko
Well-known member
Would there be a President or singular “leader” of any sort? Would there be elections or do they impede the path to socialism?
How the hell do I know: I leave crystal balls to fragile Americans, but certainly it is bound to be a matter of democratic agreement between humans . Do you know any?
cawacko
Well-known member
How the hell would you know what your vision looks like? Yeah, silly me for asking
cawacko
Well-known member
We don’t have unfettered capitalism or anything close. That is a massive straw man. And since you brought up conservatives are you with iolo that we shouldn’t have a president and somehow a workers parsdie of socialism will magically appear? Is that the liberal position now?
It's not my vision, kid. If the species is to survive at all (which I very much doubt it will) working people will have to take the dangerous toys away from your idiot masters. It's as simple as that.