Medicare For All a fiscal winner

What that means is that pre-ACA, if you went in to have a hip replacement and ended up developing a Staph infection while in recovery, Medicare/Medicaid would have covered the cost of the hip replacement and the treatment of the Staph infection. Post-ACA, Medicare/Medicaid won't reimburse the provider for the Staph infection treatment. This has led to higher outcomes for Medicare and Medicaid overall since 2010, according to KFF and the Commonwealth fund:

Except for the patient with the Staph infection.
 
I don't understand why many liberals complain about tax cuts and "subsidies" for business yet seek to give them a huge benefit by assuming the health care costs they now provide to their employees.

That is a great observation. But the explanation is simple; leftists are not fact based or even logical based, they are math challenged and emotional based. Therefore, if it sounds good and feels good, it's good regardless of the disastrous outcomes of their policies.
 
That is a great observation. But the explanation is simple; leftists are not fact based or even logical based, they are math challenged and emotional based. Therefore, if it sounds good and feels good, it's good regardless of the disastrous outcomes of their policies.

Even with Medicare for all, companies will be paying via a tax, for their employees health care, you dumb shit.
 
Except for the patient with the Staph infection.

Which is the fault of the provider, not Medicare.

So why should Medicare reimburse the provider for treating a condition that arose from the patient being in the provider's care? Why shouldn't the provider bear all that cost since they're the ones who fucked up?

You insisted outcomes weren't improved, but I just showed you that they were, thanks to the ACA's rule on reimbursement for re-admissions.
 
Even with Medicare for all, companies will be paying via a tax, for their employees health care, you dumb shit.

That's what Flash is actively ignoring...the fact that companies are still on the hook for providing coverage for their workers...only instead of paying $15K/worker to provide individual coverage, they instead pay 7.5% of their income. It's a deliberate sophist argument, and he knows it.
 
Unlike tax cuts, M4A doesn't expand the deficit or debt.

That's the biggest lie you have made to date. M4A doesn't merely expand the deficit and the debt, but it will explode it. Of course, it will take over $100,000 in taxes per employed American to pay for it every year.

When you see estimates of $30 trillion over a ten year period, one with a brain naturally realizes that is $3 trillion a year in additional costs someone has to pay for. It's not complicated math. Unless you're a dishonest dipshit.

On top of that, Government managed healthcare leads to shortages in doctors, mismanagement, fiscal losses and very long waiting times for EVERYTHING.

Only willful idiots want European style healthcare that doesn't work and creates confiscatory tax policies.
 
That is a great observation. But the explanation is simple; leftists are not fact based or even logical based, they are math challenged and emotional based. Therefore, if it sounds good and feels good, it's good regardless of the disastrous outcomes of their policies.

They also favor the solutions that create a bigger government, more spending, and more government control over healthcare. Giving business tax breaks for providing heath insurance does not accomplish these goals.
 
One reason other nations spend less on healthcare is that they limit how much is spent each year while Medicare/Medicaid spend as much as required to treat all those who are eligible.

Nations with National Healthcare plans do not pay less. They pay far more than we do in confiscatory taxes. The claims that these programs are less costly is based on lies.

Yes, they do limit which is why you cannot find specialists, have to wait months to see a doctor and perhaps a year for something as simple as a hip replacement.

The LAST thing anyone with a brain wants is to have the massive State determine what care you can and cannot have. Once implemented, there will be no recourse other than paying DOUBLE to find a plan outside of the National HC system.
 
They also favor the solutions that create a bigger government, more spending, and more government control over healthcare. Giving business tax breaks for providing heath insurance does not accomplish these goals.

What tax breaks are you talking about?

What we're proposing is swapping a business paying $15K/employee to provide individual coverage, with a 7.5% tax on income that provides for M4A.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
 
They also favor the solutions that create a bigger government, more spending, and more government control over healthcare. Giving business tax breaks for providing heath insurance does not accomplish these goals.

They will raise taxes on corporations and anyone who is working in order to pay for this $30 trillion nightmare. But we must ALL remember, corporations do not pay taxes. They collect them. We, the consumers of their goods and services pay them. So it is like a double tax on us.
 
What tax breaks are you talking about?

What we're proposing is swapping a business paying $15K/employee to provide individual coverage, with a 7.5% tax on income that provides for M4A.

Corporations don't pay taxes you moron. You might as well say that you are going to raise taxes on EVERYONE by DOUBLE.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Are you being deliberately dishonest and stupid?
 
They also favor the solutions that create a bigger government, more spending, and more government control over healthcare.

1. What's wrong with a bigger government? The alternative are big insurance companies that are unaccountable and profit-focused instead of outcome-focused.

2. The spending actually goes down because you're not paying as much in taxes as you are in premiums, deductibles, copays, coinsurance, dental, vision, hospital fees, ambulance fees, and drug costs. I refer back to my OP, but will also remind you that the average worker spends $7,100 for health care whereas that same average worker would spend just $2,440 for health care in M4A.

3. What government control? What are you talking about? Right now, private insurance companies control it all. They're the ones colluding with providers to set artificially high costs for health care so that both can make a profit.


Giving business tax breaks for providing heath insurance does not accomplish these goals.

How does M4A, which establishes a 7.5% tax on business income, give the business a tax break when it's setting a tax rate?

This is your laziness coming through.
 
Even with Medicare for all, companies will be paying via a tax, for their employees health care, you dumb shit.

Corporations don't pay taxes you putz. They pass all their costs onto their consumers, you and me. You cannot fund a $30 trillion policy by not massively raising taxes.

So why do you think it is a good idea to become a ward of the State? Too stupid to make it on your own?
 
That's what Flash is actively ignoring...the fact that companies are still on the hook for providing coverage for their workers...only instead of paying $15K/worker to provide individual coverage, they instead pay 7.5% of their income. It's a deliberate sophist argument, and he knows it.

That 7.5% comes out of YOUR pocket you dumbass. :rolleyes:
 
1. What's wrong with a bigger government?

This is why you are a uneducated dumbass. You want a faceless bureaucracy telling you what you can or cannot have. You are one of the dumbest leftists I have seen in a political forum.

Apparently you haven't had much experience dealing with the DMV, marriage licenses, permitting, or applying for citizenship.
 
Corporations don't pay taxes you putz. They pass all their costs onto their consumers, you and me. You cannot fund a $30 trillion policy by not massively raising taxes.



So why do you think it is a good idea to become a ward of the State? Too stupid to make it on your own?

You are really a stupid broad. Corporations will be paying a smaller tax for Medicare than they paid for private insurance.

Now since you believe the fairy tale that companies pass along their taxes to the consumer, why didn’t they lower their prices after receiving tax cuts?
 
I believe you would be literally shocked and amazed at how many message board conservatives who holler about getting government "out of the way" are actually collecting Medicare, Medicaid, disability payments, social security, federally-guaranteed small business loans, et al.

I know some personally who are on the take.

But they are White, Old Farts, and think that is part of their White Privileges- What makes them upset is to know that the minorities are receiving the government assisted programs.

NO, I AM NOT WHITE SHAMING! I AM NOT ASHAMED TO BE WHITE, BUT I DO KNOW SOME WHITE FOLK THAT NEED TO BE HIT OVER THE HEAD WITH A GOLF CLUB FOR BEING SUCH HYPOCRITICAL ASSHOLES!
 
You are ............................................

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You should kill yourself. You're a nobody. You'll always be a nobody. You're a moron. You will always be a moron. No one will miss you. No one would care. The worlds collective IQ would increase and it would save the valuable oxygen you waste with every breath.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Just look how that idiot Truth Deflector gets triggered every time I post!

Whatever I just commented on- MUST HAVE REALLY HIT HOME HUH? BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 
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