If Temp Hold on Ukraine Aid "threatened US National Security", what did NO WEAPONS DO

[dukkha]

2010 "Yanukovych said the lease on Russia's Black Sea fleet that was due to expire in 2017 will be prolonged for 25 years, until 2042 at least."

In 2008 the Ukrainians said they would not renew the lease when it expired in 2017. But they buckled under the pressure of a gas-price hike and, in 2010, extended the Russian navy's lease until 2042. Then after the Euromaidan (2014) , Poroshenko said no again!

Irrelevant. That is a navigation issue, not a port issue.

if the port doesn't have an ice free route to the Mediterranean and Tartus -what good is it?

I disagree. And The two will never really trust each other, and rightfully so.

SCO
Vostok 2018
Exchanging trade in non-dollars....I could go on and on..

 

[Nordberg]

Remember LEFT DIPSHITS... you and yours REFUSED TO ARM UKRAINE AGAINST RUSSIAN AGGRESSION, (because OBAMA DID NOT WNAT TO UPSET HIS MANCRUSH , VLAD, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE "MORE FLEXIBILITY" PROMISE, DID HE? ) AND NOW TRY TO PRETEND THAT A TEMPORARY DELAY IN AID TO THEM "THREATENS NATIONAL SECURITY"...FUCKING IDIOTS.


PRES. TRUMP IMMEDIATELY ARMED THEM AGAINST THE RUSSIANS, INCLUDING TANK BUSTER MISSILES....NONE OF WHICH WERE PART OF THE DELAYED AID.....





DO YOU REALLY THINK AMERICANS HAVEN'T FIGURED THIS SHIT OUT?

Your threads get more emotionally charged and dumber every day. Obama did not want to risk making the conflict bigger. But he gave the Ukraine armored Humvees, counter mortar radar units, night vision devices and medical supplies.
Trump is Putins boy toy. There is no argument about that.

 

[dukkha]

Your threads get more emotionally charged and dumber every day. Obama did not want to risk making the conflict bigger. But he gave the Ukraine armored Humvees, counter mortar radar units, night vision devices and medical supplies.

for once I agree. we have no business selling lethal aid to Ukraine
it's not our war,despite the fact the Russiaphobes can't resist a proxy war against Russia.

Germany and UK and Russia are all trying for peace talks ( Normandy talks) why are we not part of the peace process?
Because we prefer to war against Russia

Trump is Putins boy toy. There is no argument about that.

by your logic Obama was even more so, as he refused to sell lethal aid.
But you got one thing right -that's new for you

 

[Althea]

I"m sorry, ... how many Russian tanks did you say? ... I didn't hear you.

Got it. trump did less than Obama when it comes to Ukraine's defensive capabilities.

But we know that.

Can we put this Javelin talk to bed now?

 

[dukkha]

Got it. trump did less than Obama when it comes to Ukraine's defensive capabilities.

But we know that.

Can we put this Javelin talk to bed now?

pure 100% lies. do you ever fucking do any research?

https://www.defensenews.com/congres...us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/
In June, the Pentagon announced plans to provide $250 million to Ukraine in security cooperation funds for additional training, equipment and advisory efforts to build the capacity of Ukraine’s armed forces. The U.S. State Department separately planned to provide $141 million in aid.

the package are U.S. military training and equipment such as JAVELIN ( wireless TOW), sniper rifles,
rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radar systems, night-vision technology, and various forms of medical support. That $400-million figure we keep hearing about included items like these and refers to a tranche of $250 million managed by the Defense Department and another of just over $140 million managed by the State Department.

 

[Darth Omar]

Your threads get more emotionally charged and dumber every day. Obama did not want to risk making the conflict bigger. But he gave the Ukraine armored Humvees, counter mortar radar units, night vision devices and medical supplies.
Trump is Putins boy toy. There is no argument about that.

Is that what the TV tells you lol?

 

[dukkha]

Benjamin Friedman, the policy director for the think tank Defense Priorities, which advocates for more military restraint in U.S. foreign policy, counters that the United States’ security assistance has failed to result in a peace deal for Ukraine, and that the aid risks prolonging the conflict, making Kyiv less willing to compromise with Moscow and turning Ukraine into a “perpetual protectorate of the United States or the NATO alliance.”

“I think that we’re actually undermining a diplomatic outcome that’s likely to last or likely to be acceptable to the Russians,” Friedman said.

Even if you accept these arguments for why aiding Ukraine militarily is in America’s national-security interests, Trump held up the security assistance for such a brief period over the summer (55 days) that it would have been a blip on the battlefield.
It’s impossible to prove, as Schiff attempted to, that the withholding of aid for a few months cost lives that wouldn’t have otherwise been lost.
Cooper testified that there were no shortfalls of military equipment as a result of the pause. The delay of military assistance “did not have any influence on the situation in the eastern war zone,” one Ukrainian army sniper told The Daily Signal, a news site published by the Heritage Foundation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/how-vital-us-military-aid-ukraine/602407/

 

[Darth Omar]

for once I agree. we have no business selling lethal aid to Ukraine
it's not our war,despite the fact the Russiaphobes can't resist a proxy war against Russia.

Germany and UK and Russia are all trying for peace talks ( Normandy talks) why are we not part of the peace process?
Because we prefer to war against Russia by your logic Obama was even more so, as he refused to sell lethal aid.
But you got one thing right -that's new for you

Obama the Trumpist lol.

Obama had the good sense to not ‘go next level’ by supplying lethal aid to Ukraine. It’s common sense: it risks a proxy war with Russia.

For whatever reasons [probably because he’s been pressed into it] Trump went against Trumpism by supplying them lethal aid. Trumpism basically says we don’t take such steps unless it’s in our *compelling* national interest. I challenge anyone, left or right, to explain what our *compelling* national interest is in Ukraine.

 

[Grokmaster]

Your threads get more emotionally charged and dumber every day. Obama did not want to risk making the conflict bigger. But he gave the Ukraine armored Humvees, counter mortar radar units, night vision devices and medical supplies.
Trump is Putins boy toy. There is no argument about that.

What asinine bullshit. Obama gave them NOTHING WITH WHICH TO COMBAT TANKS, or ANYTHING ELSE, DUMBASS.



Obama "didn't want to risk PISSING PUTIN OFF", is what was UP..


FORGET THIS?

Obama Won’t Arm Ukraine Because He Led the Disarming of Ukraine

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...e-he-led-disarming-ukraine-andrew-c-mccarthy/



THE UKRAINIANS HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN IT.


HOW BIG OF AN INVASION OF A SOVERIGN NATION, NATO ALLY, is "ACCEPTABLE" to YOU AND THE REST OF THE OBAMIDIOTS, BEFORE WE SHOUOLD HELP THEM FIGHT BACK?



DIPSHIT.

 

[dukkha]

Obama the Trumpist lol.

Obama had the good sense to not ‘go next level’ by supplying lethal aid to Ukraine. It’s common sense: it risks a proxy war with Russia.

For whatever reasons [probably because he’s been pressed into it] Trump went against Trumpism by supplying them lethal aid. Trumpism basically says we don’t take such steps unless it’s in our *compelling* national interest. I challenge anyone, left or right, to explain what our *compelling* national interest is in Ukraine.

Trump never got a chance to reset Russian relations ( which Clinton, Bush and Obama tried)
because of the IC Scoundrels pushing the Russian hoax.

US/ Russian relations read like a Greek tragedy -the players are all flawed -except Trump the protagonist

I challenge anyone, left or right, to explain what our *compelling* national interest is in Ukraine.

we have some interest, but not to the tune of arming up what is a foreign civil war

 

[Darth Omar]

What asinine bullshit. Obama gave them NOTHING WITH WHICH TO COMBAT TANKS, or ANYTHING ELSE, DUMBASS.



Obama "didn't want to risk PISSING PUTIN OFF".


HOW BIG AN INVASION of a SOVEREIGN NATION IS "ACCEPTABLE" by LEFTIDIOT STANDARDS?

Our crumbling infrastructure is less acceptable than Russia taking Crimea [back?] lol.

Our semi-open border is less acceptable. Opioid epidemic is less acceptable. Rampant Homelessness is less acceptable than what’s going on 7,000 miles away in Ukraine.

 

[Darth Omar]

Trump never got a chance to reset Russian relations ( which Clinton, Bush and Obama tried)
because of the IC Scoundrels pushing the Russian hoax.

US/ Russian relations read like a Greek tragedy -the players are all flawed -except Trump the protagonist

we have some interest, but not to the tune of arming up what is a foreign civil war

We do, but it’s a matter of priorities.

And our support for Ukraine should reflect those priorities. We have ZERO INTEREST in getting mixed up with Ukraine and Russia beyond token military support for Ukraine. I disagree with Trump’s Ukraine policy insofar as it supplies them with lethal weapons.

 

[dukkha]

We do, but it’s a matter of priorities.

And our support for Ukraine should reflect those priorities. We have ZERO INTEREST in getting mixed up with Ukraine and Russia beyond token military support for Ukraine. I disagree with Trump’s Ukraine policy insofar as it supplies them with lethal weapons.

agree.
Ukraine is 1/2 Russian anyways and has a history of swinging back and forth with pro-Russian and pro_European leadership.

I speculate Trump would never be doing this except for the fact the Russiaphobes will not accept anything less then a full proxy war,,,and we both know how "da Russians"have been used against Trump.

Trump and Putin have never even had summit to try to improve relations. Helsinki was just a glorified meeting

 

[Darth Omar]

agree.
Ukraine is 1/2 Russian anyways and has a history of swinging back and forth with pro-Russian and pro_European leadership.

I speculate Trump would never be doing this except for the fact the Russiaphobes will not accept anything less then a full proxy war,,,and we both know how "da Russians"have been used against Trump.

Trump and Putin have never even had summit to try to improve relations. Helsinki was just a glorified meeting

I agree that Trump was likely forced into it—it goes against his foreign policy vision based on America first.

But this country has to get past this notion that it’s somehow our responsibility to solve every *intractable* civil war [Syria] or this issue with Russia and Ukraine that’s probably been boiling for over a century. We can’t solve it and we’re stupid to even try.

Especially, when our plate is full here at home.

 

[dukkha]

I agree that Trump was likely forced into it—it goes against his foreign policy vision based on America first.

But this country has to get past this notion that it’s somehow our responsibility to solve every *intractable* civil war [Syria] or this issue with Russia and Ukraine that’s probably been boiling for over a century. We can’t solve it and we’re stupid to even try.

Especially, when our plate is full here at home.

 

[Grokmaster]

Our crumbling infrastructure is less acceptable than Russia taking Crimea [back?] lol.

Our semi-open border is less acceptable. Opioid epidemic is less acceptable. Rampant Homelessness is less acceptable than what’s going on 7,000 miles away in Ukraine.

IRRELEVANT to the point I am making.

 

[Grokmaster]

OBAMA REFUSED TO ARM UKRAINE AS HIS BUDDY, VLADIPOO, INVADED....

 

[Micawber]

Uh, on OP, no weapons probably didn't help. But do you have a point?

 

[Grokmaster]

Uh, on OP, no weapons probably didn't help. But do you have a point?

REFUSING TO SELL THEM WEAPONS WOULD BE AN AGGREGIOUS BREACH OF NATIONAL SECURITY, OF WHICH THE OBAMIDIOT WAS QUITE GUILTY. WHERE WAS ALL YOUR PISSING AND MOANING THEN?.


Learn "LINEAR THOUGHT" and "LOGICAL DEDUCTION"...

 

[Nordberg]

The reason it was a temporary hold was that if Trump held it any longer, it would go back to the House where it would have to be revoted. Trump held it until the last day or 2. But he was using it to his advantage. Illegal and unethical, but so Trumpian. Ukraine was in a hot war with Russia over parts of its territory. They needed the missiles. Trump did not care. He saw a chance to personally profit off it and he did it.