Green New Deal - like all progressive ideas, it will win history

BartenderElite

Verified User
It will win history regardless of what happens. It will be either future generations looking back and saying "we should have," or (hopefully) "we're glad we did."

Promoting renewable energy, a smart grid, energy efficiency, new infrastructure & transportation...how are these "radical ideas?" What kind of country are we if these are on the fringe, and continued abuse of the planet and exhausting FINITE fuel sources somehow represent common sense?

As has been stated, it's a framework. It represents a commitment, but would come out of Congress looking much different and likely with timelines that wouldn't negatively impact jobs or the economy.

And one thing conservatives never mention - the jobs that would be CREATED with emphasis on renewables & new infrastructure. This is an opportunity to do for the American economy now what tech did for it in the '90's.

We need to change our thinking on the environment. The planet keeps yelling at us that we need to change, and we're just not listening yet.
 
Hello BartenderElite,

It will win history regardless of what happens. It will be either future generations looking back and saying "we should have," or (hopefully) "we're glad we did."

Promoting renewable energy, a smart grid, energy efficiency, new infrastructure & transportation...how are these "radical ideas?" What kind of country are we if these are on the fringe, and continued abuse of the planet and exhausting FINITE fuel sources somehow represent common sense?

As has been stated, it's a framework. It represents a commitment, but would come out of Congress looking much different and likely with timelines that wouldn't negatively impact jobs or the economy.

And one thing conservatives never mention - the jobs that would be CREATED with emphasis on renewables & new infrastructure. This is an opportunity to do for the American economy now what tech did for it in the '90's.

We need to change our thinking on the environment. The planet keeps yelling at us that we need to change, and we're just not listening yet.

Green jobs are the fastest growing sector.

The GND is just a little ahead of it's time, sadly, as far as acceptance goes. As far as the need goes, we should have done this when Jimmy Carter was President. Carter was right. He put solar panels on the WH.
 
The Economist is no right-wing rag nor are they 'climate deniers' but they wrote a pretty strong rebuke last year to the Green New Deal.


Utopia now

The problem with the Green New Deal

A deeply unserious proposal to tackle climate change


GOOD POLICY should seem more convincing as it becomes more detailed. The Green New Deal championed by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the newly minted Democratic superstar in Congress, has the opposite effect. For months the plan existed as little more than a slogan and a catch-all for progressive hopes and dreams. It would not just be a bracing proposal to confront climate change by reducing carbon-dioxide emissions to zero within ten years. It would also provide universal health care, a universal basic income, insulation from globalisation for workers, a jobs guarantee and other assorted goodies.

Critics of the proposal were derided by Ms Ocasio-Cortez’s millions of admirers and Twitter followers as anti-environmental and, possibly worse, anti-progressive. The counter-revolutionaries were told to wait for the details. On February 6th those details arrived in blueprint form, as a House resolution. It is a document with monumental ambitions and minimal detail. The most prominent Democratic contenders for their party’s presidential nomination—including Cory Booker, Kirsten Gillibrand, Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren—had all signed on even before the skeletal sketch was issued. They may come to regret it.

Unless governments can come up with policies to slow global warming, climate change will make life extremely unpleasant for mankind. To prevent a 1.5°C increase temperature relative to pre-industrial times, greenhouse-gas emissions would probably need to be halved by 2030 and brought to zero by 2050. There are sensible policies that America has not yet enacted that would bend its current trajectory on carbon emissions: a carbon tax, subsidies for nuclear-power generation, an increase in research funding for carbon-capture and carbon-storage, to name a few.

Yet the Green New Deal leapfrogs these ideas, which its creators deem too piddling and also too market-based to meet the proposal’s second objective: eliminating the excesses of late capitalism. At times the seemingly futuristic proposal sounds a bit Jeffersonian. The authors support “low-tech” carbon capture and storage for example—ie, planting trees—rather than developing more efficient technology. Pollution from agriculture would be eliminated by supporting family farming. Never mind that planting enough trees to make a globally significant dent in atmospheric carbon would require reforesting all 50 states, or that family farms are more resource-intensive than industrial operations.

Substituting high-carbon energy sources like coal for cleaner ones like natural gas, nuclear and bioenergy would do a great deal to push America towards decarbonisation. But insisting on decarbonisation within a decade—with renewable capacity still limited—would push up electricity costs rapidly. What would be the cumulative effects of mandatory, wholesale decarbonisation of the power-generation sector within ten years? Or of the mandated retrofitting of every single building in the country? Of the requirement for electric-only vehicles, and the removal of every single dirty internal combustion engine? Would it really provide “millions of good, high-wage jobs” and “provide unprecedented levels of prosperity and economic security” for the impoverished—as the resolution promises—or simply make them poorer?

In a single sub-paragraph, the American people are promised “high-quality health care; affordable, safe and adequate housing; economic security; and clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and access to nature.” There is no further elaboration. Along with the previous guarantee of “a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security,” this vision of American society is beautifully utopian. It quite literally promises the world. Yet each component of this paradise would require massive upheavals. Voters deserve a bit more explanation on how to get from here to there.


Such objections are thought unsportsmanlike by the proposal’s backers. The Green New Deal has people excited in ways think-tank white papers on cap-and-trade schemes never did. Boosters argue that it moves the “Overton window” of political dialogue: towards taking serious action on climate change. The little details, like how to pay for universal health care and a federal jobs guarantee can be dealt with later. Perhaps the Green New Deal will galvanise the youth vote, or help elect environmentally minded Democrats. Perhaps it is good politics to yoke environmentalism to other economic policies that could be popular.

Yet it seems rather more likely that the politics of the Green New Deal will backfire for Democrats. Republican strategists have stymied progress on climate change by caricaturing Democratic ideas as pie-in-the-sky efforts that would result in massive tax increases. Their parody now seems reality. The next Democratic nominee may well be someone who has endorsed the idea of the Green New Deal.

There is little wonder that Nancy Pelosi, who cares about climate change but also retains shrewd political instincts, has been so public in her doubting of the proposal. “The ‘green dream’ or whatever they call it, nobody knows what it is but they’re for it, right?” she told Politico. The bold plan could make the party unelectable in conservative-leaning states, ensuring that Republicans retain control over one chamber of Congress or even the White House and then stymie all climate legislation—whether sensible or not—for years to come.

There is a way to resuscitate the Green New Deal, and to harness the energy behind it. Its vagueness could be a virtue. Ms Ocasio-Cortez could retain the enthusiasm while rewriting the underlying policy so that it addresses a single issue—climate change. She and fellow progressives could make their enthusiastic pitches for universal health care, affordable housing, and boosting unions separately. Until then, the Green New Deal is unlikely to do anything to slow climate change. It may even get in the way of that goal.


https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2019/02/11/the-problem-with-the-green-new-deal
 
Science can not predict the weather a 100 years from now, much less the climate. :palm:

If implemented, You will never be able to scientifically prove that the GND worked ... or NOT. But you will be able to measure the devastating poverty, misery and death it will cause.
 
The Economist is no right-wing rag nor are they 'climate deniers' but they wrote a pretty strong rebuke last year to the Green New Deal.

The alternative is before us right now; forest fires, stronger hurricanes, derecho.

It's either the GND or bye-bye planet earth.

Fuck the "markets". They caused this disaster, and shouldn't be the ones we turn to for answers or input.
 
Science can not predict the weather a 100 years from now, much less the climate.

Sure it can...whether you accept it or not is the question.


If implemented, You will never be able to scientifically prove that the GND worked

I think not having Florida submerged would be scientific proof enough.
 
It will win history regardless of what happens. It will be either future generations looking back and saying "we should have," or (hopefully) "we're glad we did."

Promoting renewable energy, a smart grid, energy efficiency, new infrastructure & transportation...how are these "radical ideas?" What kind of country are we if these are on the fringe, and continued abuse of the planet and exhausting FINITE fuel sources somehow represent common sense?

As has been stated, it's a framework. It represents a commitment, but would come out of Congress looking much different and likely with timelines that wouldn't negatively impact jobs or the economy.

And one thing conservatives never mention - the jobs that would be CREATED with emphasis on renewables & new infrastructure. This is an opportunity to do for the American economy now what tech did for it in the '90's.

We need to change our thinking on the environment. The planet keeps yelling at us that we need to change, and we're just not listening yet.

Fortunately, we will never get a chance to see how devastating and stupid the green new deal is. BUT, the notion that such a nutty plan will create 7 million new jobs is about as delusional as "man caused global warming."

29% of Earth is land mass. Of that 29% humans occupy less than 2 to 3% of that area. Of the remaining land mass, about 40% is pure wilderness. 14% is true desert and 15% has desert like characteristics. 9% is Antarctica. Most of the remaining 22% are agricultural areas.

The notion that man is causing the planet to heat up based on CO2 that amounts to 0.0314% of the gas in oxygen can only be believed by morons. :rolleyes:
 
Science can not predict the weather a 100 years from now, much less the climate. :palm:

If implemented, You will never be able to scientifically prove that the GND worked ... or NOT. But you will be able to measure the devastating poverty, misery and death it will cause.

:thumbsup:
 
It will win history regardless of what happens. It will be either future generations looking back and saying "we should have," or (hopefully) "we're glad we did."

Promoting renewable energy, a smart grid, energy efficiency, new infrastructure & transportation...how are these "radical ideas?" What kind of country are we if these are on the fringe, and continued abuse of the planet and exhausting FINITE fuel sources somehow represent common sense?

As has been stated, it's a framework. It represents a commitment, but would come out of Congress looking much different and likely with timelines that wouldn't negatively impact jobs or the economy.

And one thing conservatives never mention - the jobs that would be CREATED with emphasis on renewables & new infrastructure. This is an opportunity to do for the American economy now what tech did for it in the '90's.

We need to change our thinking on the environment. The planet keeps yelling at us that we need to change, and we're just not listening yet.

You are correct the conservative battle is always the losing battle
 
No, it is scientifically impossible to prove.

Right, which is why you can't prove something happens until it does.

Those are predictions and models, based on the scientific data they are collecting.

You don't want to accept any of it because that would mean you've been wrong about Climate Change this whole time, and don't want to have to eat shit for it.

Pretty juvenile if you ask me.
 
Libtard thinks she can control the oceans

Conservative so dumb he was swindled by a reality TV show host into toiling his baggage on anonymous forums.

Trump may be gone one day, but the stink he left on you will linger for a lifetime.
 
I have always thought that it's a shame that protecting this planet somehow became a partisan, left/right issue.

You would think it would be the one thing we could all come together on. As they say, there is no Planet B. Without this one, every other issue that we argue about is meaningless.

I'm hoping that changes. I wouldn't want to see the Green New Deal go through Congress like the ACA. I think we need to have a bipartisan effort.
 
The alternative is before us right now; forest fires, stronger hurricanes, derecho.

These events have NOTHING to do with "man caused global warming" dumbass. The fires are the result of MORE humans in areas with trees and underbrush.

There are no more hurricanes today than there were 100 years ago.

If you weren't such a brain dead hack, you could comprehend the FACTS.


It's either the GND or bye-bye planet earth.

LIE and STUPID. :palm:

Fuck the "markets". They caused this disaster, and shouldn't be the ones we turn to for answers or input.

Spoken like a true Marxist dumbass on steroids. Thank you for exposing yourself as the dumbest person on the planet.

tenor.gif
 
In a single sub-paragraph, the American people are promised “high-quality health care; affordable, safe and adequate housing; economic security; and clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and access to nature.” There is no further elaboration [prior link]

Utopia!

Like something out of The Onion, literally.
 
In a single sub-paragraph, the American people are promised “high-quality health care; affordable, safe and adequate housing; economic security; and clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and access to nature.” There is no further elaboration.

Right, because it's not an actual plan, but a bunch of proposals and goals...and that's all it's ever been.

Where's this miraculous health care plan Trump's been promising since 2015?
 
Like something out of The Onion, literally.

Disagree...the Onion is no longer relevant because Conservatism has taken the parody and put it into orthodoxy.

Like the head of the Coronavirus Task Force failing at his job by getting the President infected with a disease that wasn't supposed to exist or be worse than the flu.
 
I have always thought that it's a shame that protecting this planet somehow became a partisan, left/right issue.

You would think it would be the one thing we could all come together on. As they say, there is no Planet B. Without this one, every other issue that we argue about is meaningless.

I'm hoping that changes. I wouldn't want to see the Green New Deal go through Congress like the ACA. I think we need to have a bipartisan effort.

We are stuck in Earth's 3rd Ice House, and a CO2 dearth caused by life. You have no clue. :palm:
 
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