Why does the explosion in variants correlate with the vaccines?

I am remembering that Bret did a Darkhorse with Geert Vanden Bossche who claimed that mass vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic was a great risk of disaster just for the reason that it drives hyper evolution of the bug.

 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
A vaccine is a selection pressure. ...remaining pathogens with the greatest fitness — those able to survive
Read the fucking quote and try to understand it. It doesn't cause the mutations. The best mutation of those that occurred survives.
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You’re really stuck on the semantics lol. Well, that’s basically all you have to work with.

How many times has anatta used the term ‘random mutations’ now? Of course, the vaccines don’t ‘cause mutations’. Good grief. But vaccines or anything in the environment that presents a challenge to survival for the virus can ‘lead to’ [how’s that?] certain mutations becoming fixed in the population.

And bingo, variant.
 
Why the ongoing mass vaccination experiment drives a rapid evolutionary response of SARS-CoV-2


Geert Vanden Bossche

Summary

As Sars-CoV-2 entered a highly susceptible human population, it has initially been spreading rapidly and in an uncontrollable way. This already explains why Sars-CoV-2 has been evolving rather slowly with no substantial selection of fitness-enhancing mutations occurring over the first 10 months of the pandemic (i.e., between December 2019 and October 2020). More infectious ‘variants of concern’ (VoCs, i.e., alpha [B.1.1.7], beta [B.1.351], gamma [P.1]) started to appear as of late 2020 and led to a steep increase in cases worldwide.


Molecular epidemiologists have observed that mutations within the Sars-CoV-2 spike (S) protein of these emerging, more infectious lineages are converging to the same genetic sites, a phenomenon that coincided with a major evolutionary shift in the landscape of naturally selected Sars-CoV-2 mutations (1).


Significant convergent evolution(*) of more infectious circulating Sars-CoV-2 variants is not a neutral, host-independent evolutionary phenomenon that merely results from increased viral replication and transmission but is strongly suggestive of natural selection and adaptation following a dramatic shift in the host(ile) environment the virus is exposed to (1).


Molecular epidemiologists fully acknowledge that the pandemic is currently evolving Sars-CoV-2 variants that “could be a considerably bigger problem for us than any variants that we currently know in that they might have any combinations of increased transmissibility, altered virulence and/or increased capacity to escape population immunity” (1). This is to say that phylogenetics-based natural selection analysis on circulating Sars-CoV-2 lineages strongly suggests that viral variants resistant to spike (S)-based Covid-19 vaccines are currently expanding in prevalence and highly suspicious of causing future epidemic surges globally.


Deployment of current Covid-19 vaccines in mass vaccination campaigns combined with the ongoing widespread circulation of Sars-CoV-2 can only increase immune selective pressure on Sars-CoV-2 spike protein and hence, further drive its adaptive evolution to circumvent vaccine-induced humoral immunity. In this regard, the expectation of an increasing number of vaccinologists matches the current observation made by genomic epidemiologists in that S protein-directed immune escape variants are highly likely to further spread and expedite the occurrence of viral resistance to the currently deployed and future (so-called ‘2nd generation’) Covid-19 vaccines.


To monitor the circulation of hazardous viral variants in the population and to be able to provide unequivocal proof of the immune selection pressure exerted by mass vaccination campaigns and the harmful consequences thereof, there is an urgent need for conducting representative viral sampling on vaccinees, including those who are healthy or only subject to mild disease, and to genetically characterize the variants they shed upon exposure to Sars-CoV-2.


Conducting a mass vaccination experiment at a global scale without understanding the mechanisms underlying viral escape from vaccine-mediated selection pressure is not only a colossal scientific blunder but, first and foremost, completely irresponsible from the perspective of individual and public health ethics.


In the absence of vaccines capable of inducing sterilizing immunity, early multidrug treatment as proposed by Prof. Dr. P. McCullough and others (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33387997/), together with global chemoprophylaxis using highly efficient antiviral drugs, will be key to save lives, reduce the hospitalization burden and dramatically diminish transmission of highly infectious or neutralizing antibody (nAb)-resistant escape variants.


(*) Convergent evolution relates to the independent occurrence of one or more mutations that are shared in common across several viral variants
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https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/...s-a-rapid-evolutionary-response-of-sars-cov-2
 
anatta said:
all virus mutate..the rate of mutations is the only difference
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we have had vaccinations against polio since 1954. and almost 100% coverage. and yet, only 3 variants. case closed.

On February 23, 1954, a group of children from Arsenal Elementary School in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, receive the first injections of the new polio vaccine developed by Dr. Jonas Salk.


Two out of three wild poliovirus strains eradicatedhttps://www.who.int › ... › Feature stories › Detail
Oct 24, 2019 — There are three individual and immunologically-distinct wild poliovirus strains: wild poliovirus type 1 (WPV1), wild poliovirus type 2 (WPV2) and ...

Two Strains of Polio Are Gone, but the End of the Disease Is ...https://www.nytimes.com › health › polio-strain-eradication
Oct 28, 2019 — In another milestone on the long, expensive and sometimes discouraging road to wiping out polio, global health officials announced ...
 
Darth Omar said:
In all of your semantical somersaults you’ve done everything but explain what prevents a virus from mutating around [again, however you want to put it] a vaccine.

Is evolution limited in some instances?
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The only way to prevent a virus from mutating is to eliminate it. Whether a virus will mutate around a vaccine is a matter of time and chance. It needs enough time to randomly mutate enough different ways until one results in a mutation that changes the virus enough that the vaccine is no longer effective because the body no longer recognizes it as a virus it has developed antibodies for.

Of course evolution is limited. If it wasn't limited then no species would become extinct. The limitation is that when the environment changes there has to be a viable mutation within the species that can survive in the changed environment.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
The only way to prevent a virus from mutating is to eliminate it. Whether a virus will mutate around a vaccine is a matter of time and chance. It needs enough time to randomly mutate enough different ways until one results in a mutation that changes the virus enough that the vaccine is no longer effective because the body no longer recognizes it as a virus it has developed antibodies for.

Of course evolution is limited. If it wasn't limited then no species would become extinct. The limitation is that when the environment changes there has to be a viable mutation within the species that can survive in the changed environment.
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We dont have any experience with man made bugs.

This is novel...we shall see.
 
Darth Omar said:
You’re really stuck on the semantics lol. Well, that’s basically all you have to work with.

How many times has anatta used the term ‘random mutations’ now? Of course, the vaccines don’t ‘cause mutations’. Good grief. But vaccines or anything in the environment that presents a challenge to survival for the virus can ‘lead to’ [how’s that?] certain mutations becoming fixed in the population.

And bingo, variant.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on finally getting the process correct. The correct process is not semantics. It is called accuracy.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Why the ongoing mass vaccination experiment drives a rapid evolutionary response of SARS-CoV-2


Geert Vanden Bossche



https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/...s-a-rapid-evolutionary-response-of-sars-cov-2
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It suffices to acknowledge that the ongoing convergent evolution of new variants is driven by natural selection pressure to conclude that mass vaccination campaigns conducted in the heat of a pandemic are now promoting expansion of immune escape variants that vaccines will eventually no longer be capable of protecting against. [from above link]
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I hope this isn’t true.

It validates the OP premise that vaccines may be increasing the frequency of variants but I don’t like the second part. I’d just as soon be wrong all the way around.
 
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