A mortal blow to Young Earth creationism

“The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries.”

I was talking about in general. We can date the Big Bang but that doesn't mean there wasn't a time BEFORE that. Did the Big Bang all of sudden just appear out of nowhere? All those kinds of questions.

Inside the system, everything can be dated. Outside the system? How can we even know?

There is nothing outside the Universe. A Universe that isn't universal is not the Universe.
 
Neither can the detectives at crime scenes. Free all prisoners.

This old argument again??? Sheesh.

Detectives use science, dude. They either attempt to build or destroy correlations between a crime and a person using theories of science. NONE of it is a proof.
Do you know what trials and juries are for, dude?
 
This old argument again??? Sheesh.

Detectives use science, dude. They either attempt to build or destroy correlations between a crime and a person using theories of science. NONE of it is a proof.
Do you know what trials and juries are for, dude?

By your logic, since detectives weren't there at the time of murder, they cannot prove it.

The murder cases can be 10, 20 or 100 years old.
 
Which would tell you the rock was a certain age but not when the hand prints were placed.

I'd wonder if they tested the pigments they used... that could actually net a time period when the prints were placed.

I mean, if I repaint a car that was built in the 70s and leave a fingerprint on it, that does not mean the fingerprint was placed in the 70s if they prove the car was built then... eh?

Since travertine is a chemical precipitate, I presume the fractionation of isotopes between solid phase, thermal fluid, and atmosphere ceased when the rock lithified, which was probably shortly (geologically speaking) shortly after the juveniles made the prints. That established the radiometric clock.

The researchers most likely used the same approach as the dating of archaic human footprints in Africa. The Laetoli footprints were made by two Australopithecus hominids walking on fresh wet volcanic ash. Once the ash lithified (which would have been shortly after the footprints were made) the isotope ratios were frozen in place, giving a radiometric date of 3.2 million years for the Laetoli footprints.

I am not interested in investing the time to read the technical paper the handprints researchers published with all the technical specs of the study , but if this is really bothering a bible thumper, I am sure the scientists would email anyone a print of their paper.
 
“The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries.”

I was talking about in general. We can date the Big Bang but that doesn't mean there wasn't a time BEFORE that. Did the Big Bang all of sudden just appear out of nowhere? All those kinds of questions.

Inside the system, everything can be dated. Outside the system? How can we even know?

He's correct. Since Space-Time began with the Big Bang, the Cosmos is all there ever was, is or will be.

Was it Flatland that had two-dimensional creatures trying to comprehend a cone that was penetrating their plane? To them it began as a point then a circle that grew larger and large then suddenly disappeared when the cone passed through like the middle one below. They couldn't comprehend the three dimensional object passing through their flat world.

Similarly, we see everything in only three dimensions and can't comprehend fourth or greater ones. The "before" the Big Bang might just be a greater dimension.

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I agree that far too many DO believe in that unscientific idea, but most of us do not. I question that poll's conclusions. The ones who do not will be the ones who can compete against the rest of the world where superstition and myth isn't a part of technology and science. After all, the elite need support staff, eh? :laugh:

I have always thought it remarkable that some people seem to be able to hold mystical unscientific ideas but still be able to perform well in college in scientific disciplines. Believe it or not, I have run across Evangelical christians who are theoretical physicists.
 
He's correct. Since Space-Time began with the Big Bang, the Cosmos is all there ever was, is or will be.

Was it Flatland that had two-dimensional creatures trying to comprehend a cone that was penetrating their plane? To them it began as a point then a circle that grew larger and large then suddenly disappeared when the cone passed through like the middle one below. They couldn't comprehend the three dimensional object passing through their flat world.

Similarly, we see everything in only three dimensions and can't comprehend fourth or greater ones. The "before" the Big Bang might just be a greater dimension.

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Exactly. The Flatlanders illustrate the point. How can we ever know?

This one is such an example.

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“The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries.”

I was talking about in general. We can date the Big Bang but that doesn't mean there wasn't a time BEFORE that. Did the Big Bang all of sudden just appear out of nowhere? All those kinds of questions.

Inside the system, everything can be dated. Outside the system? How can we even know?

I think the multiverse hypothesis is gaining steam, and I even read recently that there conceivably might be a way to test it if we ever develop instrumentation sensitive enough to detect miniscule perturbations in the cosmic microwave radiation background - it supposedly would imply other universes interacting with ours.
 
I have always thought it remarkable that some people seem to be able to hold mystical unscientific ideas but still be able to perform well in college in scientific disciplines. Believe it or not, I have run across Evangelical christians who are theoretical physicists.

Personally I think that's cool as long as they keep it private and don't try to stop others from learning about science because of their god stuff.
 
I have always thought it remarkable that some people seem to be able to hold mystical unscientific ideas but still be able to perform well in college in scientific disciplines. Believe it or not, I have run across Evangelical christians who are theoretical physicists.
Are you saying they were biblical literalists and also physicists?

How did they explain it?
 
Are you saying they were biblical literalists and also physicists?

How did they explain it?
Not exactly sure what the evangelical Christian physicists thought, but their particular brand of Protestantism encourages a literal reading of the bible.

I did run across a couple of geologists who actually gave credence to literall creationism and had serious doubts about evolution.

My theory is that for some reason they are perfectly capable of passing college level tests in physics, chemistry, earth sciences while still holding on to their personal opinion about biblical creation..
 
This one is mindboggling to the Flatlanders, not to us.

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Exactly.

We live within a time bubble. Outside, if there is one, there is no time. It's eternal.

We experience time in one direction and moment by moment when all there is and all there ever will be already exists.

Not a physics guy, but I look at reality like a movie reel. It's all there even though we only see it one frame at a time.
 
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