don't attend the "civil war"

Matt Dillon said:
There was nothing unconstitutional or wrong with the states that seceded seceding. The northern states wanted to charge tariffs on their goods as if they were a foreign country anyway. That's more what the war was about than slavery.

The whole thing could have been avoided if intrastate tariffs were declared null and void. (by the Fed)

Look Legion, you internet troll fuck: I have read most of a book that's like 5 inches thick that's a documentary of the Civil War.

How many lime-encrusted sabots and big balls from the Civil War era do you have in a couple mason jars, hmm?

By no means am I an expert, but I have made due effort to educate myself on the subject.
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South Carolina "ratified" the U.S. Constitution in 1788. By doing so it became a legally bound state of the United States. There was no "we changed our minds" clause. To become legally bound is what the word "ratification" means in law.
 
martin said:
South Carolina "ratified" the U.S. Constitution in 1788. By doing so it became a legally bound state of the United States. There was no "we changed our minds" clause. To become legally bound is what the word "ratification" means in law.
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The Southern states never left the United States, their Civil War was an attempt to leave and become their own nation.
They lost, so they were never their own nation, despite having their plans to become one.
 
Into the Night said:
It's already evidence. Further, I know the quality of their military hardware. It sucks. They bark big, but their bite is much less than their bark.

That said, they ARE a serious threat to Taiwan and parts of Indonesia.

Anything further than that would precipitate a world war, which they would lose, even with an alliance with Russia.

As far as China attacking the SOA or The Oligarchy, I really don't think they would stand much of a chance against the armed citizens of the SOA, nor the US military. Indeed, in such an event, The Oligarchy itself would be destroyed, and the United States would be restored as a unified defense.

Why would Biden want that?
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No offense, but you do not know what you are talking about on this.

America is still much more powerful than China, militarily.

But the later is closing the gap...fast.

Army - they have thoroughly modern equipment in the Type 99 MBT, Type 08 APC system, PLZ-05 SPA/PHL-03-MRL, numerous modern IFV's and WZ-10 attack helicopter.
Some of these are close/equal to NATO's equipment.

Air Force - most of their present inventory is based on the latest Russian combat aircraft like the J-11 and J-16.
However, the Chinese have developed several aircraft of their own including the J-10 (similar to a high Block F-16) and the fifth-generation stealth J-20. With the JH-7 for multi-role, attack duties.

Navy - they have 2x65,000 ton aircraft carriers. And are building an 85,000 ton one. With up to 4x110,000 ton (that is Ford Class size) Type 004 aircraft carriers that could be finished by the early 2030's.
And they are also developing an F-35 type aircraft (J-31) for their Navy with similar capabilities.
Plus, they are building large numbers of thoroughly, modern cruisers and destroyers (including the HUGE, 13,000 ton Type 55 cruisers). 45 to be in service by 2022. All built this millennium alone.
Also, they have built 34xType 54A frigates in just the last 14 years.
Finally, they have built 8x25,000+ ton Amphibious transport ships - all in the last 14 years. And have 3 amphibious assault ships that are up to 40,000 tons. With 5 more on order.

However, if they continue to develop their hypersonic missiles.
And if they perform as promised?
They could render America's Carrier Strike Groups obsolete - if manufactured in sufficient numbers.
I explain more here:
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...saurs-Agree-or-disagree&p=4831529#post4831529


China is by NO MEANS militarily weak any longer. They have built and are continuing to build and develop large numbers of modern, weapons systems that are close to or equal with many NATO standard ones.

And as I mentioned in other threads? China - at it's present rate of GDP growth - will pass America's GDP within 8 or 9 years.
And pass her GDP per capita average within 50-55 years.

If these milestones are reached - they will then be free to produce truly, gigantic numbers of modern, indigenous-designed, weapons systems.


I already know what you will say - 'you are wrong'.
And you will post ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to back that up...as usual.
So I will not bother wasting my time looking for your reply.

Thus, my answer to it is -
'Fine.
Believe whatever you like.'

We are done here.

Bye now.'
 
McRocket said:
No offense, but you do not know what you are talking about on this.

America is still much more powerful than China, militarily.

But the later is closing the gap...fast.

Army - they have thoroughly modern equipment in the Type 99 MBT, Type 08 APC system, PLZ-05 SPA/PHL-03-MRL, numerous modern IFV's and WZ-10 attack helicopter.
Some of these are close/equal to NATO's equipment.

Air Force - most of their present inventory is based on the latest Russian combat aircraft like the J-11 and J-16.
However, the Chinese have developed several aircraft of their own including the J-10 (similar to a high Block F-16) and the fifth-generation stealth J-20. With the JH-7 for multi-role, attack duties.

Navy - they have 2x65,000 ton aircraft carriers. And are building an 85,000 ton one. With up to 4x110,000 ton (that is Ford Class size) Type 004 aircraft carriers that could be finished by the early 2030's.
And they are also developing an F-35 type aircraft (J-31) for their Navy with similar capabilities.
Plus, they are building large numbers of thoroughly, modern cruisers and destroyers (including the HUGE, 13,000 ton Type 55 cruisers). 45 to be in service by 2022. All built this millennium alone.
Also, they have built 34xType 54A frigates in just the last 14 years.
Finally, they have built 8x25,000+ ton Amphibious transport ships - all in the last 14 years. And have 3 amphibious assault ships that are up to 40,000 tons. With 5 more on order.

However, if they continue to develop their hypersonic missiles.
And if they perform as promised?
They could render America's Carrier Strike Groups obsolete - if manufactured in sufficient numbers.
I explain more here:
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...saurs-Agree-or-disagree&p=4831529#post4831529


China is by NO MEANS militarily weak any longer. They have built and are continuing to build and develop large numbers of modern, weapons systems that are close to or equal with many NATO standard ones.

And as I mentioned in other threads? China - at it's present rate of GDP growth - will pass America's GDP within 8 or 9 years.
And pass her GDP per capita average within 50-55 years.

If these milestones are reached - they will then be free to produce truly, gigantic numbers of modern, indigenous-designed, weapons systems.


I already know what you will say - 'you are wrong'.
And you will post ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to back that up...as usual.
So I will not bother wasting my time looking for your reply.

Thus, my answer to it is -
'Fine.
Believe whatever you like.'

We are done here.

Bye now.'
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That's not a good situation and we have leaders here whose main goal to fagify the military. :palm:
 
martin said:
South Carolina "ratified" the U.S. Constitution in 1788. By doing so it became a legally bound state of the United States. There was no "we changed our minds" clause. To become legally bound is what the word "ratification" means in law.
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:wrongkiddo: Nothing in the Constitution stated states can't leave if treated unfairly. At least at that point.
 
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Matt Dillon said:
That's not a good situation and we have leaders here whose main goal to fagify the military. :palm:
Click to expand...

America has to get off it's collective butt and a) balance the frigging budget.
And b) get the Fed/federal government to LEAVE the economy alone so that the GDP can grow at a far higher rate than it has over the last 15 years or so.

All that is happening now is the people are fighting each other.
While the government prints money with a turbocharger.
And the Fed is destroying free enterprise.

It's not too late...but we have to change things soon.

Though right now?
I see no urgency to do ANY of these things.
 
RB 60 said:
The Southern states never left the United States, their Civil War was an attempt to leave and become their own nation.
They lost, so they were never their own nation, despite having their plans to become one.
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Like saying a couple's twelve year old ceases to be it's lawful child by running away from home.

The other myth from Civil War apologists is that secession was simply a lawful exercise of state's rights - "a matter of principle, dear fellow". A crock of shit is what that is, invented after the war was over.

Secession was entirely about slavery. The two sticking points were 1) refusal by northern states to vigorously enforce the federal fugitive slave law that legally denied sanctuary to escaped slaves and 2) the continuing admission into the union of new, free states thereby upsetting the balance in Congress between free and slave states. If there's any doubt about South Carolina's slavery concerns as the state's one and only justification for leaving the union, take a couple of minutes and read its Declaration of Secession.

https://www.americanyawp.com/reader...south-carolina-declaration-of-secession-1860/
 
archives said:
Humorous to see so many wingers here that have bought into their media's melodrama, little tip for you there fellows, infotainment has to portray everything in a melodrama, the great the histrionics, the more you swallow it, the more money they profit. Not rocket science
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dude.....everything you've ever posted was gleaned from media melodrama.......if reality ever grasps you in its cold fingers you will spend an eternity trying to atone for the stupid things you've said......
 
Matt Dillon said:
:wrongkiddo: Nothing in the Constitution stated states can't leave if treated unfairly. At least at that point.
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Nothing in the Constitution stated states can un-ratify their ratification for that or any other reason. And, curiously, the argument that ratification didn't really mean ratification doesn't seem to have occurred to the members of the South Carolina legislature when they put in writing their justification for secession.
 
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McRocket said:
America has to get off it's collective butt and a) balance the frigging budget.
And b) get the Fed/federal government to LEAVE the economy alone so that the GDP can grow at a far higher rate than it has over the last 15 years or so.

All that is happening now is the people are fighting each other.
While the government prints money with a turbocharger.
And the Fed is destroying free enterprise.

It's not too late...but we have to change things soon.

Though right now?
I see no urgency to do ANY of these things.
Click to expand...

It's not even on the radar for most of them.
 
Matt Dillon said:
You can't even sell that bullshit to yourself, let alone anyone else.
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Well, not to you, anyway. Anyone who knows what "ratification" means would buy it. The South Carolina legislature obviously had the brains not to buy your argument when it declared its reasons for secession.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
since when has a government never used force because someone refused one of their orders?????
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make them shoot you.

we win the moral argument.

get violent and we lose all public support and you will also lose against the government.

martyrdom works. I have spiritual beliefs anyway.

if you only believe in the physical world, you're already lost.

this is my take.

do what you want.

I'm doing what jesus would do.
 
McRocket said:
Oh come on now.
You NEVER (that I have yet seen) post ANY source to backup ANYTHING you claim.
So you have NOTHING to bitch about here.

And your wikipedia excuse is nonsense - and surely you know that.

If wikipedia has a quote and a link to a corroborated source.
Then it IS - in that case - an authoritative source.
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Nope. Too many times its articles are incomplete, badly written, or just plain wrong. You cannot use Wikipedia as an authoritative reference with me. You'll have to do better.
 
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