So, You Want $15 An Hour?

[danielpalos]

A lot of people are doing better with automation, but lazy, stupid people who expect to get ahead just because they are white men are absolutely being killed by automation.

Why do you say that?

 

[American Man]

You assholes who think the minimum wage shouldn't go up always claimed that doing so would raise prices.

Well, now that so many stores are using automated checkouts, why aren't prices going down?

Oh, and if you think $15/hr is too much for minimum wage, then I think that six or seven figures is too much for a CEO's salary.

 

[danielpalos]

Equal protection of the at-will employment laws for unemployment compensation is simpler. Even the right-wing should be able to understand it.

Can we ask for any financial engineers to help out?

 

[Street Glider]

A lot of people are doing better with automation, but lazy, stupid people who expect to get ahead just because they are white men are absolutely being killed by automation.

Um, okay.

That doesn't come close to answering my question, but thanks...

 

[Street Glider]

You assholes who think the minimum wage shouldn't go up always claimed that doing so would raise prices.

I've never said the minimum wage shouldn't go up. I don't think anyone has said that.

But, you're correct. If a grocer who sells corn for $1 an ear while paying the employee who rings it up $10 an hour is suddenly mandated to pay that same employee $15 an hour, yeah, the price of that ear of corn isn't going to stay $1 for very long...

Well, now that so many stores are using automated checkouts, why aren't prices going down?

Because they don't have to, that's why.

If that grocer can save $10 an hour by not paying a human cashier, how would it be healthy for his business to lower his prices?

Oh, and if you think $15/hr is too much for minimum wage, then I think that six or seven figures is too much for a CEO's salary.

And, maybe one day, you'll be in a position to do something about that. But if you ever do find yourself sitting in the CEO's chair, feel free to pay yourself as little as you like...

 

[American Man]

I've never said the minimum wage shouldn't go up. I don't think anyone has said that.

But, you're correct. If a grocer who sells corn for $1 an ear while paying the employee who rings it up $10 an hour is suddenly mandated to pay that same employee $15 an hour, yeah, the price of that ear of corn isn't going to stay $1 for very long...



Because they don't have to, that's why.

If that grocer can save $10 an hour by not paying a human cashier, how would it be healthy for his business to lower his prices?



And, maybe one day, you'll be in a position to do something about that. But if you ever do find yourself sitting in the CEO's chair, feel free to pay yourself as little as you like...

My god. I don't know which is funnier: that you're so arrogant as to think I was addressing you specifically, or that you're stupid enough to [attempt and fail to] answer rhetorical questions.

Let me simplify this for you. I was mocking those idiots who claim that raising the minimum wage would increase prices across the board. This has been debunked by economists years ago. I was also criticizing the hypocrisy of conservatives who claim that the market determines salary while berating those workers who decide that they no longer want to work for peanuts and finally realize they have bargaining power.

 

[Street Glider]

My god. I don't know which is funnier: that you're so arrogant as to think I was addressing you specifically, or that you're stupid enough to [attempt and fail to] answer rhetorical questions.

If I misunderstood your intent, apologies...

Let me simplify this for you. I was mocking those idiots who claim that raising the minimum wage would increase prices across the board.

That would require someone to believe that a business owner will be willing to absorb the additional costs of running his business from his company's bottom line. My example of the ear of corn, while overly simplified, is accurate. It won't really matter with just the sale of one ear of corn. It'll matter on the sale of 100, or 1,000 ears of corn, though...

I was also criticizing the hypocrisy of conservatives who claim that the market determines salary while berating those workers who decide that they no longer want to work for peanuts and finally realize they have bargaining power.

I'm certainly more conservative than liberal. If an employee decides he no longer wants to work for what he's being paid and requests a raise, then that's something which we're always happy to discuss. If you want more money, I'll happily pay it, provided you can demonstrate that I'm going to be making a sound investment in you as an employee. Those who ask for raises in my company are happy to do that. They're not always successful, but then we sit down with them and discuss how they can be successful the next time they ask for a raise.

Those who demand more money, simply because they don't like what they're currently being paid, are probably going to see a very different end to that conversation...

 

[Walt]

Why do you say that?

There are millions of low education white men missing from the workforce. The question is why. I blame the difficulty of modern jobs, and their expectations of high rewards for just being a white man.

Other possible explanations: willingness of family to support them, unwillingness of women to marry them, really great video games, etc.

That really great video games is not a joke. There have been economics papers claiming the missing workers are missing because they are playing video games instead.

Whatever it is, it might well be related to why low educated white men are losing life expectancy. Pre-Covid, almost no demographic worldwide was losing life expectancy... Other than low education white men.

If you want a better description of those refusing to work, and dying younger, it would be extreme trump voters.

 

[Taichiliberal]

So, you want $15 to start as a cashier at Wal-Mart?

I rarely go to Wal-Mart, but the last time I was there (about three weeks ago) there were two cashiers on duty, and eight self-service lanes open.

It's a smart move by Wal-Mart. At $15 an hour, eight cashier lanes running 17 hours a day (my local Wal-Mart is open from 6am-11pm) costs Wal-Mart $2,040 per day to operate. In just 2-1/2 days a single kiosk can pay for itself (they run around five grand a pop). The kiosk then no longer needs anything; no training, no time off, no breaks, no health insurance, no paid holidays; nothing.

This is where retail is headed. If we assume ten kiosks per store and an otherwise hourly wage of $15 an hour per soon-to-be-out-of-work cashier, once these kiosks pay for themselves (which would happen in rather short order) Wal-Mart will save a total of $2,550 per day in hourly wages. That's $17,850 per week, or $928,200 a year, and that's per store. Wal-Mart has approximately 10,500 stores. If this approach was put in place in all of their stores, Wal_Mart would save $9,746,100,00 per year.

Many retailers will follow Wal-Mart's lead. If the kiosk idea ultimately fails, Wal-Mart is large enough to absorb the loss. If it succeeds, though, other retailers will start adopting the use of kiosks instead of employing cashier's. Even the largest grocery stores (which are also currently employing self-serve kiosks) will be able to operate with far fewer employees.

This is just an observation based on what I've seen locally here in northeast Florida. I have to believe that northeast Florida is not unique...

Which is why the dystopian futures predicted in so many sci-fi movies will be science fact in the coming years.

Because we as a people, allow it.

Remember Ghandi, remember the French Revolution, remember King.

 

[danielpalos]

There are millions of low education white men missing from the workforce. The question is why. I blame the difficulty of modern jobs, and their expectations of high rewards for just being a white man.

Other possible explanations: willingness of family to support them, unwillingness of women to marry them, really great video games, etc.

That really great video games is not a joke. There have been economics papers claiming the missing workers are missing because they are playing video games instead.

Whatever it is, it might well be related to why low educated white men are losing life expectancy. Pre-Covid, almost no demographic worldwide was losing life expectancy... Other than low education white men.

If you want a better description of those refusing to work, and dying younger, it would be extreme trump voters.

That is probably more true of the younger generation. Did you know that they are giving away cryptocurrencies by playing video games or their equivalent?

 

[Walt]

That is probably more true of the younger generation. Did you know that they are giving away cryptocurrencies by playing video games or their equivalent?

Making money from cryptocurrency is another possible reason, but I find that one weak.

It is hitting people between the ages of 40 and 60 hard. I do not know if you consider that younger, but I do not. We have poor people who have never worked at a job for more than a month "retiring" at age 40. Very strange.

 

[Ross Dolan]

No, I'm not...



Would it be better if we didn't sponsor those summer camps or donate and volunteer at women's shelters and no-kill animal shelters?

I'd bet a dollar to a donut that those represent three more things than you do...



Not many white inner city kids in Jacksonville. You said what you said. You referred to them as slaves.

Because you're a racist...



Sure you are, and I just explained how you're a racist...



What "ass kicking", exactly?

How is this a competition. Have you done so little in your pathetic little life that now that, at your advanced age, you're forced to consider your own mortality and feel you need to "win"?

Seriously, the fat that someone so old, and allegedly so wise, would look at this as some sort of competition. Children do what you're doing...



That's actually sad that your life is so devoid of joy that the only time you feel you have value is when you're either insulting black people or online...



You have dementia. Many people your age do...



I don't have many problems and, I can assure you, you're not nearly impactful enough to be one of them...



I see. So, you're not interested in someone who has actual experience in the arena. I get that. You're outmatched and that frightens you.

If you truly want to discuss capitalism and how to make it better, I'm all in. Let's do it. But expecting me to not use my own positive experiences in the formulation of my opinions is the height of ignorance.

So, let's discuss it: How do you think capitalism can be improved?



I'm stretching nothing, and my observations about you are 100% accurate. You've done nothing to show otherwise except to repeatedly claim you're handing me my ass. Well, you're not. I know you're not because you have to keep saying it...



Likewise, then, if we stopped our charitable works that, too, would say little, correct?



Personally, I started my charitable contributions when I was in the Navy, giving to Navy Relief and CFC. As I moved up in rank my donations to both increased. When I retired, I ensured there were two deductions from my pension: one deduction for VGLI and another for Navy Relief. When my businesses started operating in the black we started donations and volunteering. We've been doing it locally for the last 14 years.

Now, if you think that's "just for show", I don't know what to tell you. But the amount of money we donate is significant, as is the time spent by me and my employees on volunteer opportunities...



My employees all know they have great opportunities within my companies. They know if they want to go to college to better themselves that the company will give them grants to pay for their education. They know that if they run into hard times they can come to the company for help. If that makes me "devoid of humanity", well, then I guess I'm devoid of humanity.

In your eyes, anyway. Certainly not in the eyes of the people who matter to me...



I reacted that way for a very specific reason.

I'm not sure if it was you or someone else, but the comment was made that if someone asked me for a raise I would show them the door. That was an outright lie. When I challenged someone to show me where I did say it, they proved to be a failure (huh, maybe it was you).

But the truth is I never said that. What I did say was that anyone demanding a raise, simply because they want one, would be shown the door. I always make time to look at the requests of my employees. I do that because I value them. But that's a two-way street. Someone who feels he can demand something of me, and then insist I comply with his demands, is someone who doesn't have a home at my company. If you consider that to be "devoid of humanity", well, guilty as charged...



I've repeatedly attempted to get you into a conversation about those things, but all you seem interested in doing is repeatedly claiming to have handed my ass to me, as if that could possibly mean anything. You act as though my skills at debate, somehow, transfer over to my willingness and ability to do charitable works. Seriously, dude, I don't get you. You say you want to discuss things but, when I try, it's as if you tuck tail and run. I guess I'll try one more time: Let's discuss those things. How do you think we can improve capitalism?

You are still out of control, SG. You have got to get over that. You look like a fool...and no reason to do the kind of work you put into your posts...just to look like a fool. Try to keep cool and relaxed.

Get away from the Internet 101 bullshit. The "you are a doddering old man" nonsense is for the high schoolers pretending to be adults...not for someone old enough to have retired from the Navy. In any case, I am a very robust 85 year older...and many people 20 years younger than I have trouble keeping up with me. You might!

And for crissake, stop rambling.

So...you want to talk about how I, personally, would improve capitalism.

That ought to be fun. I think it to be almost useless, because I (and you) do not amount to much in the grand scheme of things. It would be better to think in more general terms. You, however, seem to be fixated on YOU (and now) ME...rather than on society and humanity in general.

But let's try it your way...and to start, allow me to propose a single question: Do YOU consider capitalism as practiced in America as something so perfected, that improvement is not truly needed...not something important?

Let's start there...let us determine if YOU even see the need for significant improvement.

Stay calm and purposeful. Stick with this single question until we come to agreement (or an understanding) on it...and then you get a chance to ask a question...hopefully emanating from what we agree on with this one.

 

[Monad Portal]

Agreed. It's a symbiotic relationship like Yin-Yang; Management and Labor need each other to survive. If one becomes too dominant, then the system breaks down. Something we've seen in the US since the 1980s.

so what are you doing to return power to labor?

sucking banker dick won't do it.

oh right, you're just a two faced piece of shit. I forgot

 

[Monad Portal]

You assholes who think the minimum wage shouldn't go up always claimed that doing so would raise prices.

Well, now that so many stores are using automated checkouts, why aren't prices going down?

Oh, and if you think $15/hr is too much for minimum wage, then I think that six or seven figures is too much for a CEO's salary.

board of directors, taking about getting paid for doing nothing.

parasites.

 

[Monad Portal]

You are still out of control, SG. You have got to get over that. You look like a fool...and no reason to do the kind of work you put into your posts...just to look like a fool. Try to keep cool and relaxed.

Get away from the Internet 101 bullshit. The "you are a doddering old man" nonsense is for the high schoolers pretending to be adults...not for someone old enough to have retired from the Navy. In any case, I am a very robust 85 year older...and many people 20 years younger than I have trouble keeping up with me. You might!

And for crissake, stop rambling.

So...you want to talk about how I, personally, would improve capitalism.

That ought to be fun. I think it to be almost useless, because I (and you) do not amount to much in the grand scheme of things. It would be better to think in more general terms. You, however, seem to be fixated on YOU (and now) ME...rather than on society and humanity in general.

But let's try it your way...and to start, allow me to propose a single question: Do YOU consider capitalism as practiced in America as something so perfected, that improvement is not truly needed...not something important?

Let's start there...let us determine if YOU even see the need for significant improvement.

Stay calm and purposeful. Stick with this single question until we come to agreement (or an understanding) on it...and then you get a chance to ask a question...hopefully emanating from what we agree on with this one.

he's just a typical libertarian brainwash victim, thinking corporations are morally perfect, globalism is awesome, and fiat currency isn't totalitarianism.

 

[Ross Dolan]

he's just a typical libertarian brainwash victim, thinking corporations are morally perfect, globalism is awesome, and fiat currency isn't totalitarianism.

I'm afraid so, AssHat.

I am interested in how he responds to my final question, though.

Stay tuned.

 

[danielpalos]

Fast food workers make a minimum of $20 hourly in Denmark, while in the US, their average hourly wage is $8.90, according to the Times report.

 

[Street Glider]

You are still out of control, SG. You have got to get over that. You look like a fool...and no reason to do the kind of work you put into your posts...just to look like a fool. Try to keep cool and relaxed.

Get away from the Internet 101 bullshit. The "you are a doddering old man" nonsense is for the high schoolers pretending to be adults...not for someone old enough to have retired from the Navy. In any case, I am a very robust 85 year older...and many people 20 years younger than I have trouble keeping up with me. You might!

And for crissake, stop rambling.

So...you want to talk about how I, personally, would improve capitalism.

That ought to be fun. I think it to be almost useless, because I (and you) do not amount to much in the grand scheme of things. It would be better to think in more general terms. You, however, seem to be fixated on YOU (and now) ME...rather than on society and humanity in general.

But let's try it your way...and to start, allow me to propose a single question: Do YOU consider capitalism as practiced in America as something so perfected, that improvement is not truly needed...not something important?

Let's start there...let us determine if YOU even see the need for significant improvement.

Stay calm and purposeful. Stick with this single question until we come to agreement (or an understanding) on it...and then you get a chance to ask a question...hopefully emanating from what we agree on with this one.

Well, at least I can say I tried.

I asked you a question. I asked you what you thought we could do to improve capitalism.

You failed to answer that question. Instead, you chose to continue with your insults. I figured that's where you would go, but I was holding onto the thinnest shred of hope that you would be man enough to actually engage the conversation.

You proved my initial fears to be correct. You're not capable of having a discussion. All you want to do is prop yourself up by insulting others. Well, after a half dozen attempts to get to to have a conversation, I'm done. If I thought you were capable of such a conversation, I would continue. But you've made it glaringly obvious that you have no interest in that.

Now, I know you will claim "victory" and insist that you've "handed me my ass" but, permit me to assure you, that is not the case. Your repeated failure to do anything but hurl vitriol is clear evidence that you're only capable of that. So, it is with that in mind that I dismiss you to the steamy pile of human feces that is my "ignore" list. There are, I think, only two others on it; those who have also proven to be worthless bags of skin and total wastes of oxygen.


I will, I suppose, take solace in the fact that, at 85, you've already surpassed the average life expectancy for an American male (I won't say "man", because you're not a man at all). Given that, you're not likely to be with us much longer. I, on the other hand, will take my lack of humanity and use it to help those who deserve to be helped. I'll use it to help those who need a hand. I will not, however, give it to anyone who thinks they should have it for no other reason than they don't, despite what ignorant old fools like you believe...

 

[Street Glider]

he's just a typical libertarian brainwash victim, thinking corporations are morally perfect, globalism is awesome, and fiat currency isn't totalitarianism.

I don't believe any of that. Corporations aren't morally perfect, and I'm not, at all, a fan of globalism...

 

[Street Glider]

Which is why the dystopian futures predicted in so many sci-fi movies will be science fact in the coming years.

I doubt it...

Because we as a people, allow it.

Do the people allow it, or do the people cause it?

There are a lot of lazy people out there getting paychecks. If their boss decides to replace them with a kiosk or other form of automation in the name of productivity, whose fault is that?

Remember Ghandi, remember the French Revolution, remember King.

Alrighty...