Grim Reaper
Chief Exit Officer (CEO)
You didn’t identify a fallacy. You just threw a random term at the wall because you can’t process the sentence you’re reacting to. That’s not debate that’s spam wearing a thesaurus as a Halloween costume.
US inches closer to change in how presidential elections are counted
- Thread starter Hume
- Start date
Into the Night
Contributor
Denial of logic. Argument of the Stone fallacy. Buzzword fallacies (random, term, sentence, debate, spam, thesaurus). Cliche fallacies.
You aren't talking about anything, Zombie.
Excellent parsing of the bullshit-laden AI nonsense the forum is being spammed with.Whole persons is vague in meaning. I didn't say "non-citizens," that's something Google AI put words in my mouth. I stated "illegal aliens." These are persons with no valid reason to be within the borders of the United States. They are here illegally and criminally in violation of our laws.
That doesn't mean it has to be done that way. What Google AI does here is use an appeal to tradition fallacy.
This is more weasel wording by Google AI. Members of Congress do not represent foreign nationals nor do they represent persons illegally in the US.
Rigging is a valid word here. If say, for example, 10% of the persons in some congressional district were here illegally, what purpose does it serve the US, the state that district is in, or the citizens of the US that those persons have skewed the distribution of congressional districts by their presence?
"Modest increases" is not a numerical value. It is weaseling out of the argument.
While Factcheck.\org tries to downplay this, even they admit my numbers are valid.
Breaking Down the Immigration Figures - FactCheck.org
Encounters on the southern border of those trying to enter the U.S. without authorization have gone up significantly under President Joe Biden. Government statistics show that in the initial processing of millions of encounters, 2.5 million people have been released into the U.S. and 2.8 million...www.factcheck.org
Total nationwide encounters under the Biden-Harris administration now exceed more than 10.3 million
The undocumented immigrant population in the United States reached 14 million in 2023, the highest level on record, according to estimates from the nonpartisan think tank Pew Research Center.
The new estimate from Pew, published in August, represents a rise from earlier figures that placed the undocumented population at around 11 million.
Fact Check: Did 20 Million Illegal Immigrants Enter US Under Joe Biden?
The undocumented immigrant population in the United States reached 14 million in 2023, according to Pew Research Center.www.newsweek.com
My range of 5 to 20 million gives the overall spread of values out there. I stated that it is likely around 10 million entered. That is reasonable and it is quantified. Google AI tries to weasel out that with vague generalities substituted for data. Plenty of "credible source(s)" put the numbers where I have them while Google AI chose Left of Center and pro-Democrat sources exclusively.
No, 5 to 20 million is the spread lowest to highest. The true number is within that range. I put it at 10 million. I would be fine with 7 to 13 million as likely figures. Maybe Google AI can take some classes on statistics.
Look at the goddamned numbers by state! Most went to blue states. The choice of states and that argues they avoided red states. Google AI is full of shit here.
Louisiana v. Callais applies to all states.
LOUISIANA v. CALLAIS
www.law.cornell.edu
The ruling is nationwide and means other states with districts that were formed on racial cutouts can redistrict and eliminate those if called for.
Again, Google AI is full of shit. Comparing W. Virginia, Louisiana, and Arkansas to California, New York, and Illinois in population loss is at best mendacious. As an example, California lost about 670,000 people last year in move outs. The population of W. Virginia is 1.7 million. That means roughly 40% of the population of W. Virginia left California last year.
Google AI, as usual is full of shit and a poor source of data and information.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Please explain why the Republicans voted lock dtep AGAINST a Dem bill to end All gerrymandering nationwide? That's the core issue here ... not your absurd magat clap trap.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
It's a pleasure to watch you factually and logically reduce these maga/alt-right cretins to regurgitating their insipidly stubborn denial.
FACT CHECK: T.A. Gardner’s Claims
1. “Nothing in the 14th Amendment requires non‑citizens to be counted.”
Misleading.
What the Constitution actually says:
The 14th Amendment requires apportionment based on the “whole number of persons in each state.” It does not say “citizens.” It does not exclude non‑citizens.
Source:
- U.S. Constitution, 14th Amendment, Section 2
- U.S. Census Bureau apportionment rules
Historical fact:
The U.S. has counted all residents — citizens and non‑citizens — for over 230 years, across both parties.
This is not “just practice.” It is the constitutional standard.
2. “Counting illegals rigs districts.”
Not supported.
What’s factual:
- Apportionment counts residents, not voters.
- This has been upheld repeatedly by courts.
- Members of Congress represent districts, not only citizens.
Source:
Calling it “rigging” is rhetoric, not evidence.
- Evenwel v. Abbott (2016), SCOTUS (Court upheld using total population for districts.)
3. “Biden let in 5–20 million illegals.”
Not supported by authoritative data.
What the data shows:
- Estimates of unauthorized immigrants vary, but no credible source (Pew, Cato, DHS, Migration Policy Institute) supports a 5–20 million increase under Biden.
- Most estimates show modest increases, not a doubling.
Sources:
The “5–20 million” number is a political talking point, not a measured figure.
- Pew Research Center
- DHS annual immigration statistics
- Migration Policy Institute
4. “Most illegals went to blue states to avoid red ones.”
Not supported.
What migration data shows:
Unauthorized immigrants live in all states, with large populations in:
There is no evidence of migrants strategically avoiding red states.
- California (blue)
- Texas (red)
- Florida (red)
- New York (blue)
- New Jersey (blue)
- Arizona (purple/red)
Sources:
- Pew Research Center
- DHS
- Migration Policy Institute
5. “Louisiana v. Callais (2026) struck down race‑based districting nationwide.”
Incorrect.
What the ruling actually did:
The Court held that Louisiana’s specific map violated the Constitution. It did not issue a nationwide ban on considering race in redistricting.
Sources:
SCOTUS rulings on maps are case‑specific, not universal.
- SCOTUS decision text
- Legal analyses from SCOTUSblog and Congressional Research Service
6. “9 of the top 10 losing states are blue.”
Partially true but incomplete.
What the Census data actually shows:
The pattern is mixed, not absolute.
- Some blue states lost population (CA, NY, IL).
- Some red states lost population (WV, LA, AK).
- Some blue states gained population (WA, CO).
- Some red states gained population (TX, FL, TN).
Sources:
City Journal, Forbes, and Newsweek are interpretations, not raw data.
- U.S. Census Bureau 2023–2024 state migration data
7. “Democrats have screwed up everything they touched.”
Pure rhetoric. Not a factual claim. Not measurable. Not falsifiable.
Claim Status Evidence 14th Amendment doesn’t require counting non‑citizens Misleading “Whole number of persons” = all residents Counting non‑citizens rigs districts Not supported SCOTUS upholds total population Biden added 5–20M illegal immigrants Not supported No credible source Migrants avoid red states False Pew/DHS distribution SCOTUS banned race‑based maps nationwide False Case‑specific ruling Blue states losing population Partially true Census shows mixed pattern Democrats ruin everything Rhetoric Not evidence
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Grim Reaper
Chief Exit Officer (CEO)
There’s no point lying, I’ve got the receipts, and they don’t favor you.There is nothing in the 14th Amendment requiring that non-citizens be included in the census. That has just been the practice. That aside, counting non-citizens, particularly ones here illegally, does rig districts. It ups the number of people supposedly represented by a member of Congress. No member of Congress represents criminal persons illegally in the US.
Nothing obvious at least. However, during the Biden administration, the number of illegals in the US roughly gained 50% to doubled, depending on whose numbers you want to take. That number was estimated to be 11 to 15 million prior to Biden and Biden let in between 5 and 20 million with an average of about 10 million during his term.
That would have a big impact on numbers in the census, and most of those illegals went to blue states to avoid red ones where they were more likely to be arrested at some point.
The latest decision (Louisiana v. Callais 2026) the Supreme Court did strike down drawing congressional districts based on race nationwide.
For once I agree with Google AI.
Actually, of the top 10 losing population 9 are blue states while those gaining are 7 red, and 3 purple-red.
Blue States’ Demographic Nightmare
Recent migration numbers emphasize how population gains, economic growth, and political power are shifting toward Republican strongholds.www.city-journal.org
How post-Covid migratory patterns could create a November surprise
A mass exodus to southern states could spell good news for Democrats, experts tell Newsweek.
Blue State Cities See Largest Population Loss As Red State Cities Boom
When looking at the major metropolitans areas that have experienced the greatest population gains and losses since 2020, some see important policy lessons to be gleaned.www.forbes.com
All in all, that statement is reasonably accurate Google AI's equivocating notwithstanding.
While it is rhetoric, it also has more than a ring of truth in it.
Hey stupid fuck, ending the EC requires and amendment.
AND you still didn't answer - why did California not give their EC votes to Donald Trump in 2024? You Stalinists are honorless scum - when an American won the popular vote - you suddenly forgot all about the "popular vote pledge."
You Marxists lust for power and will do anything to get it.
Grim Reaper
Chief Exit Officer (CEO)
FACT CHECK
1. “Ending the Electoral College requires an amendment.”
True.The Electoral College is established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution and modified by the 12th Amendment. To abolish it, you would need a constitutional amendment, which requires:
- 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
- 3/4 of state legislatures to ratify
This part of the claim is factually correct.
2. “California didn’t give its EC votes to Trump in 2024 despite the popular vote pledge.”
This refers to the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC).Facts:
- California is a member of the NPVIC.
- The compact has NOT taken effect, because it only activates once participating states reach 270 electoral votes combined.
- As of 2024, the compact had not reached 270.
- Therefore, California was legally required to award its electors to the winner of California’s statewide vote — not the national vote.
Conclusion:
California did not violate the compact. The compact simply wasn’t active, so no state was bound to follow it.3. “Stalinists / Marxists / lust for power”
These are political insults, not factual claims.There is no evidence that:
- Any U.S. state acted unlawfully in awarding electors
- Any political group “forgot” a pledge that wasn’t legally active
- Any group “lusts for power” in a way that can be fact‑checked
BIAS CHECK
The original message contains:- Hostile political labeling (“Stalinists,” “Marxists”)
- Moral judgments about political opponents
- Assumptions of bad faith
- Emotionally charged language designed to provoke, not inform
OVERALL RATING
| Claim | Status | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| Ending the EC requires an amendment | True | Constitutionally correct |
| California violated the popular vote pledge |  False | Compact was not active |
| “Marxists/Stalinists lust for power” | Opinion | Not a factual claim |
Lol, Another moron that needs me to help them understand the obvious. Did you read the bill? Not a chance, it's 800 pages of libtard fantasies complete with enough key words so they could tell morons like you it was about ending Gerrymandering. You still haven't figured out how DC works yet, huh? Consider this the article I posted to combat whatever click-bait you read.
The democrats are broke, in debt, while the republicans have more than plenty of cash on hand. So what can they do? Their donors aren't answering the phones anymore. The few that do, the call goes something like this: Not long ago, I could deal with you idiots and tolerate the crazy parts, but you've handed the keys to people so insane and radical I'd be pissing money away or supporting shit nobody in their right mind would.
Desperate, they write an 800-page power grab and fantasy wish list that satisfies multiple groups of drones all at once, including the all-important communist and socialist groups, hoping they'll send them some money to fight for this righteous bill, like those dutiful drones always do. They knew the bill had as much chance of passing as a drone's chances of having an original thought. Not to mention it would have been thrown out of the courts seeing that much of their wish list was unconstitutional to start with.
It was a desperate attempt to raise money, red meat for the Marxists, nothing more. The press barely touched it out of embarrassment, but not you. You ate it up and look, here you are now thinking you had a mic drop moment that proves us republicans don't hate Gerrymandering enough, but democrats want to end it now. (Since all their racist maps are unconstitutional.)
Here's the problem. As long as districts are constantly changing because of population changes and election results there will always be Gerrymandering. Your problem? You cannot draw racist maps anymore because it's racist to do so. (Pesky 14th Amendment) When your puppet masters scream about 'banning partisan maps' that's a position of weakness, not strength. You think if they were looking at a blue wave they would want to ban the ability to draw new maps after their big wins and become the party in power, they'd want to ban the use of the will of the voters? Off course not, they're not that stupid, again, they knew it didn't have a chance which makes it very easy to talk tough.
The fact is banning 'partisan' maps is the same as saying your majority opinion doesn't matter, you're going to engineer the outcome anyway. You belong to the party that wants to kill democracy and ignore the majorities will. If a state votes 55-45 Republican, the districts should roughly reflect that. Forcing so-called non-partisan or independent commissions is not neutral, it is an active attempt to override what the voters actually chose at the ballot box. Sounds good to you as long as that means democrats get power, earned or not.
Democrats are in a panic for good reason. People are leaving blue cities and states in droves, illegals are being deported, and on top of that every racist map libtards have drawn for decades are unconstitutional and will be changed. If we manage to stop mail-in ballots and require ID, it's curtains for the democrats. They only really left with one sane choice, get normal fast and start actually doing the things the few sane democrats still holding on want done, so they can win an election fair and square or they're finished.
I find it very interesting that there are so many similarities between the Iranian regime and democrats right now it'd almost be comical if it wasn't tragic. They're as crazy if not crazier, they're impossible to negotiate with because they're crazy and we don't know who the leaders are. The Iranian 'peace' proposals are a lot like the bill you are whining about right now, a complete non-starter, and let's face it, you libtards do love you some dictators, as well. Your rhetoric is the same too, making that too many similarities to ignore.
Anyways, I hope this helps and always remember Trump loves you.
Grim Reaper
Chief Exit Officer (CEO)
every time you get cornered you unload another 800‑word rage‑novel like you’re trying to filibuster your own humiliation. You didn’t explain the obvious you just panic‑typed until your keyboard begged for workers’ comp.
You keep screaming about bills, donors, Marxists, Iran, gerrymandering, and whatever else your brain grabbed on its way down the stairs, but none of it answers the point. It’s just noise. Loud, sweaty noise.
You call everyone a moron while writing paragraphs that read like a conspiracy theorist speed‑running a stroke. You’re not debating. You’re spiraling.
And the funniest part? You think volume equals victory. But all it does is show how hard you’re flailing to avoid admitting you got folded.
You didn’t post an argument, Toby. You posted a cry for help.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Google AI made that rebuttal not Grimmy. That aside, I demolished that response in short order. Google AI is a for shit source of information.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
You're the embodiment of the old saying, "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS".For those interested in a more objective, fact based answer to my previous question, note the following:
Republicans voted against independent redistricting in 2021
CA Gov. Gavin Newsom said Republicans didn’t vote for national independent redistricting. House Republicans voted against a multifaceted 2021 bill that had such a measure. Republicans in at least four states supported state initiatives.
www.politifact.com
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Let us all know when you can logically and factually disprove THE CONTENT instead of blowing smoke about the site label. We'll wait.
Another AI response.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Posts #312 and 313
Typical brainless drone. Throw up a little click-bait and she thinks she won the argument, lol. We can all read what bias libtard journos write anywhere anytime. Is this an article exchange? Answer: yes, for libtards, it's all they can do. They're great at presenting other people's arguments, really bad at having or sharing an original thought. Morons like this one prove that every day.
For those interested in a more objective, fact based answer to my previous question, note the following:
Republicans voted against independent redistricting in 2021
CA Gov. Gavin Newsom said Republicans didn’t vote for national independent redistricting. House Republicans voted against a multifaceted 2021 bill that had such a measure. Republicans in at least four states supported state initiatives.
A moron responding. I bet she wishes I cared enough to go look, lol. Try writing something all by yourself, dumbass.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
With the self identification of his first sentence, Toby display the maga/alt-right mentality of hear, see and speak no evil when he can't defend his position against facts and logic. He's finished.
Another dumbass response from a butt-hurt idiot pissed that I refuse to read endless AI diarrhea dumped out by the dumbest rejects on JPP.
One more time, short and sweet.
All an idiot does with AI is turn his own retarded claims into longer, fancier versions of the exact same stupidity. AI is the dream tool for every low-resolution thinker out there. One-click single-variant 'studies' at their fingertips. Exactly why libtard puppet masters love the shit so much. Now any brain-dead simpleton can shit out a fake scholarly report in seconds.
This moron is seething because I won't waste a single second on his or his little buddies' latest chatbot garbage. Not their own words, not their own brain, just a bot dressing up their dumbass thoughts in a long pointless report. You finish reading that AI slop and realize you've accomplished nothing. One simple follow-up question collapses the whole thing like the weak-minded idiot who prompted it.
If I bothered to read the garbage this idiot wants me to, I would destroy it with ease like I’ve done dozens of times before.
I use women’s pay as a perfect example, since so many libtards still cling to that tired narrative. If I told this moron that women aren’t paid less simply because they’re women, which is true, she would immediately run that statement through AI and come crawling back with a long, detailed report 'proving' I’m wrong and here are the 'facts.' Those facts might be technically accurate on the surface, but they’re still low-resolution bullshit. Real truth on any complex issue demands multivariate analysis, not her cherry-picked single or univariant slop. Those proper studies exist, and the answer is crystal clear. That’s just one tiny example out of thousands.
Democrats spent decades dumbing down their followers and now we’re cursed with millions of these idiots. AI isn’t fixing them. It’s making them even dumber because they don’t know what to ask. One lazy prompt gets them a shiny report they think is genius, until a few real questions about actual variables blow the whole thing apart.
I hope this helps sweetheart.
It is not about ending the EC. You are illiterate.