Archaeology of the New Testament

[Ichabod Stain]

If nothing is real but matter and energy, then your claim is impossible. Quarks, electrons, and photons are not rational and they do not possess rationality.

Rationality means clear thought based on reason, intelligence, and logic.

is there anything rational that you do not understand?

 

[Cypress]

is there anything rational that you do not understand?

Explain precisely how a quark posses rationality.

​

Rationality (noun): the quality of basing thoughts, beliefs, and actions on reason, logic, and objective evidence.​

 

[ZenMode]

So you believe nothing is real but matter and energy, and that a mathematically rational, lawfully organized, and finely tuned universe popped into existence by random chance from irrational material causes.

That truly is miraculous.

Nothing in my experience of nature convinces me that the rational can come from the irrational and that something can come from nothing.

Like I said previously, I'm fine saying we don't know how the universe came into existence. That's a much more honest response than resorting to the actions of ancient man and explaining all of the unexplainable by making up magical beings.

Also, if an all-knowing being so meticulously planned the universe and mankind, maybe he could have designed it a little better so...

• our primary light source didn't cause cancer,
• the Earth didn't have faults that cause earthquakes/tsunamis and mass death.
• we don't use the same pipe for breathing and swallowing food
• our eyesight and hearing didn't degrade over time
• humans are given the ability to regrow limbs rather than giving that ability to lizards, salamanders and lobsters.
• not wired our retinas backwards, causing a blind spot in every human.
• designed the human body to walk upright. our current design was originally meant for animals who walk on four legs, so walking on two puts extreme pressure on the spine, causing chronic back pain.
• humans are entirely dependent on external dietary sources for vitamin C because we lack a gene to synthesize vitamin C. Most other mammals can produce their own.

Just a couple thoughts on our finely tuned world/universe.

 

[ZenMode]

gnostic is something different than agnostic. just so you know.

talk to text error. I meant agnostic.

 

[Cypress]

I belong to the world of evidence and belief.

Religious people, like you and @Cypress , belong to the world of faith, which means believing despite a lack of evidence.

The contradiction you are employing without realizing it, is that on the one hand you claim "we don't know" what caused a lawfully organized, mathematically rational universe. But on the other hand you are insinuating that you are 100 percent certain that it was caused by irrational, physical materialistic causes.

In short, you're saying 'we don't know', but while smuggling in a truth claim along side.

 

[ZenMode]

The contradiction you are employing without realizing it, is that on the one hand you claim "we don't know" what caused a lawfully organized, mathematically rational universe. But on the other hand you are insinuating that you are 100 percent certain that it was caused by irrational, physical materialistic causes.

In short, you're saying 'we don't know', but while smuggling in a truth claim along side.

I already said I'm not 100% certain.

 

[Cypress]

Like I said previously, I'm fine saying we don't know how the universe came into existence. That's a much more honest response

So you are leaving open the possibility that a lawfully organized and mathematically rational universe could only be best explained by some kind of higher rational agency underlying the universe.

Congratulations, you have graduated from strict atheism to agnosticism.

 

[ZenMode]

So you are leaving open the possibility that a lawfully organized and mathematically rational universe could only be best explained by some kind of higher rational agency underlying the universe.

Congratulations, you have graduated from strict atheism to agnosticism.

There are various targets for my atheism. I'm a certain, 99.999999999% certain, that all of the gods made up by superstitious, ignorant men are fake. Fairytales. Fiction.

The question of how the universe came into existence is different, but is completely separate from the stories written by men who sacrificed animals to change the weather.

 

[Cypress]

I definitely consider myself to be atheist, especially as it relates to all of the gods that man has made up over time.

That still makes you agnostic.

Just because you don't want to believe in a supernatural guy with a white beard and robe, and just because the religions of the world might have erroneous interpretations of God, you are still leaving open the possibility that some kind of higher rational agency was the cause of a rational and lawfully organized universe.

 

[ZenMode]

That still makes you agnostic.

Just because you don't want to believe in a supernatural guy with a white beard and robe, and just because the religions of the world might have erroneous interpretations of God, you are still leaving open the possibility that some kind of higher rational agency was the cause of a rational and lawfully organized universe.

It really doesn't matter how you want to label it. It doesn't change my beliefs. It's just a distraction.

 

[ZenMode]

Like I said previously, I'm fine saying we don't know how the universe came into existence. That's a much more honest response than resorting to the actions of ancient man and explaining all of the unexplainable by making up magical beings.

Also, if an all-knowing being so meticulously planned the universe and mankind, maybe he could have designed it a little better so...

• our primary light source didn't cause cancer,
• the Earth didn't have faults that cause earthquakes/tsunamis and mass death.
• we don't use the same pipe for breathing and swallowing food
• our eyesight and hearing didn't degrade over time
• humans are given the ability to regrow limbs rather than giving that ability to lizards, salamanders and lobsters.
• not wired our retinas backwards, causing a blind spot in every human.
• designed the human body to walk upright. our current design was originally meant for animals who walk on four legs, so walking on two puts extreme pressure on the spine, causing chronic back pain.
• humans are entirely dependent on external dietary sources for vitamin C because we lack a gene to synthesize vitamin C. Most other mammals can produce their own.

Just a couple thoughts on our finely tuned world/universe.

@Cypress Thoughts?

 

[Ross Dolan]

There are various targets for my atheism. I'm a certain, 99.999999999% certain, that all of the gods made up by superstitious, ignorant men are fake. Fairytales. Fiction.

The question of how the universe came into existence is different, but is completely separate from the stories written by men who sacrificed animals to change the weather.

I just gave you a "like" for something else you said, but here I am of a different mind.

Atheism and theism have one undeniable commonality...that is a guess about the true nature of Reality. Granted, theism guesses one way and atheism a different way, but one of the guesses is incorrect...AND NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE WHICH IT IS. Either there IS at least one god (or it is more likely that there is at least one god than that there are no gods)...or there are no gods (or it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.)

My opinion is that it is best for the guesses not to be made.

 

[Damocles]

Arranged in order of highest certainty to lower certainty:

Pilate stone: stone inscription identifying Pontius Pilate as Roman perfect of Judea from 26-36 AD​

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Ossuary of Caiaphas: inscribed bone box belonging to Caiaphas high priest of the Sanhedrin.​

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Nazareth: Archeological remains of first-century agricultural village of Nazareth.​

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Crucifixion evidence: Discovery of an ankle bone pierced with an iron nail, found in a first-century tomb, corroborating the description of Roman crucifixion practices.​

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Pool of Bethesda: excavations of first-century pools matching the description in John's gospel.​

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Garden of Gethsemane: excavations of first-century olive oil production site consistent with gospel descriptions of olive grove at foot of Mount of Olives.​

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Ossuary of James, brother of Jesus: inscribed bone box possibly belonging to James, brother of Jesus.​

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Ossuary of Judas Thaddeus: late first-century inscribed bone box found in Jezreel Valley, possibly belonging to the disciple Jude Thaddeus,​

All of this is interesting. However there is no evidence of a census that required anyone to return to their city of birth to be counted... One of the reasons trying to figure out when Yeshua was born (as in month and year) has been difficult.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

Explain precisely how a quark posses rationality.

​

Rationality (noun): the quality of basing thoughts, beliefs, and actions on reason, logic, and objective evidence.​

my question was a yes or no question.

is there anything that is rational that you do not understand ?

 

[Ichabod Stain]

The contradiction you are employing without realizing it, is that on the one hand you claim "we don't know" what caused a lawfully organized, mathematically rational universe. But on the other hand you are insinuating that you are 100 percent certain that it was caused by irrational, physical materialistic causes.

In short, you're saying 'we don't know', but while smuggling in a truth claim along side.

he didn't say any of that either.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

like when I took linear algebra. I could pivot matrices in the proper order over one another.

but i still didn't understand it.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

All of this is interesting. However there is no evidence of a census that required anyone to return to their city of birth to be counted... One of the reasons trying to figure out when Yeshua was born (as in month and year) has been difficult.

but the overriding factor is "what difference does it make?"

 

[Cypress]

All of this is interesting. However there is no evidence of a census that required anyone to return to their city of birth to be counted... One of the reasons trying to figure out when Yeshua was born (as in month and year) has been difficult.

Luke was not a companion of Jesus, he was just recording what witnesses and people associated with Jesus' ministry were telling him. He undoubtedly got some stories and details wrong, particularly about the census.

All we know about the birth of Jesus is that it must have been shortly before 4 BC, because King Herod was supposed to be alive when he was born.

 

[IBDaMann]

You actually have to have the kind of rational mind that can think like a historian, an archeologist, or scientist.

Nope. You have to simply be a rational adult. The name Yeshua and Ya'akov were common names. If I were to tell you that I located a man named James with a brother named Steve, would that narrow it down to only one possibility?

Jesus shared four brothers with James. Assuming the inscription is legitimate, it would be unexpected and highly unusual for the ossuary to only name one of James's brothers out of the four he had.

You just explained why it's the wrong Yeshua.

 

[IBDaMann]

So you believe nothing is real but matter and energy,

You destroy your own argument by using the wrong words.

Let's ask @Into the Night and @gfm7175 about this. I want to get their input. If, hypothetically, humanity were to determine beyond any doubt, that God exists, but is strictly supernatural, wouldn't God nonetheless still be real?

and that a mathematically rational, lawfully organized,

You destroy your own argument by using the wrong words.

The universe is a random dust cloud. There are no dependencies that you can apply. It is not "finely tuned." There is no test of randomness that the universe fails. You are your argument's worst enemy.

That truly is miraculous.

That's where you should be looking! (hint, hint)