Would America Be Better Off with More Religion?

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

You lost your marbles putting Kirk on a pedestal. He was little, but the newest in a long line of pushers who use religion for personal and political gain. He was a bigot who had the holiness of a skunk in a pope hat.

My point was Charlie's Political views,were contradictory to his Religious beliefs, leaving himself pulled in opposite directions ,and helped get him whacked by MAGA for wanting the Epstein files released.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

The university was an invention of the Catholic church.

All of America's colonial universities were founded by Protestants.

Those universities taught a classical education. That's why our founding fathers were so erudite.

18th century America was the most literate place on the planet. Why? Because Protestants are expected to become literate and be able to read their bibles.

Science was utterly unique to the West and is definitely an outgrowth of the Christian belief that God's revelation is not only found in scripture, but also in nature's revelation.


There is no question there is a strain of American Protestant fundamentalism that can said to be promoting ignorance.

Republican Evangical MAGA beliefs,are contradictory to any real Christian beliefs!

 

[Jade Dragon]

My point was Charlie's Political views,were contradictory to his Religious beliefs, leaving himself pulled in opposite directions ,and helped get him whacked by MAGA for wanting the Epstein files released.

Thanks for clarifying. There's no way to know if his religious beliefs are real or not. I go with whether their actions fit a truly Christ loving inividual. Kirk doesn't even pass the most basic tenets of that. By all accounts, he seemed to only advance Christ for personal or political gain. On top of that, he was a bigot, which is about as far from Christ as you can get.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Thanks for clarifying. There's no way to know if his religious beliefs are real or not. I go with whether their actions fit a truly Christ loving inividual. Kirk doesn't even pass the most basic tenets of that. By all accounts, he seemed to only advance Christ for personal or political gain. On top of that, he was a bigot, which is about as far from Christ as you can get.

We all are as far as Christ as can be! I have seen ,many videos of his. He was a true believer, with Conservative politic views! That contradicts his Religious views.
I think Charlie was still finding himself. We will never know how he would have evolved!

 

[Taichiliberal]

The Islamic Near East would be considered part of the western legacy. It's not an Eastern civilization.

That was a case where religion did shut down rational inquiry and empirical investigation.
The Islamic Golden Age was a grand achievement for sure, but it lasted only for a few centuries, before religious dogma largely shut it down.

Oh GMAFB! You try to minimize a culture that created and revolutionized many of the scientific, agricultural and moral philosophy that guided the WORLD today. Period. What's really pathetic is your phrase "few centuries" ... omitting those achievements occurred LONG before the Greeks got it together. And don't get me started on Western Africa.

 

[Cypress]

Oh GMAFB! You try to minimize a culture!

Minimize? No reasonable person would conclude that from what I wrote.

​

The Islamic Golden Age was a grand achievement for sure

But it's a fact that because of Islamic dogma, the free spirit of rational inquiry came to a screeching halt in the Arab world sometime in the 14th century.

Thanks to the Arabs mathematical and philosophical knowledge worked it's way back into Western Europe.

But my post did not discuss mathematics or philosophy.

I wrote that the institutions we would recognize as universities in Europe and North America were the inventions of Catholics and Protestants.
And modern empirical science as we practice it developed almost exclusively in the West, and has in fact been emulated and copied around the world. Just like the West copied Hindu numerals from the Arabs.

This is just history.
This is hardly an aggrandizement of my ancestors. My forebearers came from the Eurasian steppes where there weren't any universities or scientific innovation.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Minimize? No reasonable person would conclude that from what I wrote.

​

But it's a fact that because of Islamic dogma, the free spirit of rational inquiry came to a screeching halt in the Arab world sometime in the 14th century.

Thanks to the Arabs mathematical and philosophical knowledge worked it's way back into Western Europe.

But my post did not discuss mathematics or philosophy.

I wrote that the institutions we would recognize as universities in Europe and North America were the inventions of Catholics and Protestants.
And modern empirical science as we practice it developed almost exclusively in the West, and has in fact been emulated and copied around the world. Just like the West copied Hindu numerals from the Arabs.

This is just history.
This is hardly an aggrandizement of my ancestors. My forebearers came from the Eurasian steppes where there weren't any universities or scientific innovation.

Your relatives are from Holy Toledo!
Genesis 3:22-24 !

 

[Hume]

The university was an invention of the Catholic church.

so? They taught theology.

 

[Cypress]

so? They taught theology.

Along with famously the seven liberal arts: grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music, astronomy.

"The seven liberal arts are the traditional disciplines of classical and medieval education, divided into the Trivium (the arts of the mind/language) and the Quadrivium (the arts of matter/numbers). Together, they formed the historical foundation for a well-rounded education designed to produce free-thinking citizens. At the medieval University of Paris, founded around 1170, the seven liberal arts formed the foundational curriculum of the Faculty of Arts."

AI summary​

 

[IBDaMann]

It is when they mistaked Christian nationalism for true Christian faith.

Sure, there is American patriotism, but I'm not aware of any such thing as Christian patriotism, and I don't think you can find any American Christian who somehow confuses his patriotism with his Christian faith.

I think you mistaked when you tried posting in English. What is your native language?

 

[IBDaMann]

Not a fan of Jews I take it?

Are you a fan of Jews?

 

[Jerry Mathers]

That's my thoughts on the issue as well. How would those (R)s and non-college-educated ppl feel if the "more religion" was Islam? Or Catholic, which they despise almost as much? Did the respondents assume that "more religion" meant their flavor and none other?

Yes. Its a stupid poll

 

[Crepitus]

Are you a fan of Jews?

I got no problems with them.

Not so keen on the current israeli government though.

 

[IBDaMann]

I got no problems with them.

You answered a question that was not asked, and you did not answer the question that was asked. Let's try again.

Are you a fan of Jews?

Not so keen on the current israeli government though.

... nor am I, but you asserted that I am "not a fan of Jews", and I seek clarification on how I should take that, so ... are you a fan of Jews?

 

[Crepitus]

You answered a question that was not asked, and you did not answer the question that was asked. Let's try again.

Are you a fan of Jews?


... nor am I, but you asserted that I am "not a fan of Jews", and I seek clarification on how I should take that, so ... are you a fan of Jews?

I'm not a fan of any religion. I have less issued with Jews than with Evangenitals, for instance.

not sure where you are going with this.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Minimize? No reasonable person would conclude that from what I wrote.

​

But it's a fact that because of Islamic dogma, the free spirit of rational inquiry came to a screeching halt in the Arab world sometime in the 14th century.

Thanks to the Arabs mathematical and philosophical knowledge worked it's way back into Western Europe.

But my post did not discuss mathematics or philosophy.

I wrote that the institutions we would recognize as universities in Europe and North America were the inventions of Catholics and Protestants.
And modern empirical science as we practice it developed almost exclusively in the West, and has in fact been emulated and copied around the world. Just like the West copied Hindu numerals from the Arabs.

This is just history.
This is hardly an aggrandizement of my ancestors. My forebearers came from the Eurasian steppes where there weren't any universities or scientific innovation.

You can't "recognize" your Euro-Western "christian" modern achievements without giving 100% credit to building blocks given by the African/Asian folk. Period. And let's not forget the South American people. That is why you had the Mayans accurately charting celestial movements WITHOUT A TELESCOPE, or how the East Indians and Chinese developed treatment and cures in medicine WITHOUT drugs or internal surgery. And don't get me started on architecture ..... because there are ANCIENT relics and remnants of the aforementioned that Europe and North American "christian" science STILL can't figure out. Hell, it wasn't until the 1970's that Euro/Western medicine formally acknowledged and grudgingly allowed acupuncture to be used .... and they STILL refuse to embrace the Asian concepts of why it works, calling it a "tricking of nervous system". Some trick.

And did you ever stop and think that maybe people who learned to live with the land and flourish didn't have the need to create a "science" or technology that required industrial waste and nasty little side effects?

This is just historical fact. I don't begrudge modern Euro-Western science it's strides and accomplishments, but it just ticks me off when I see a patronizing attitude to what clearly surpassed and then pointed the way to better health and such.

 

[IBDaMann]

I'm not a fan of any religion.

Obviously, you are not a fan of Jews.

I have less issued with Jews

Again, no one cares about with whom you have issues, hence why it was not asked.

than with Evangenitals, for instance.

Now you have piqued my interest.

1. Define "Evangelical", or are you posting like a typical ignorant leftist who simply hurls categories as slurs because he doesn't really understand anything?

2. What issues do you have with the as-of-yet undefined "Evangelicals" that you don't have with "Jews"? Are you assuming that "Jews" are political leftists and therefore their religious beliefs are acceptable, even though they are similar or identical to the religious beliefs of the as-of-yet undefined but presumed conservative "Evangelicals" (e.g. Baptists)?

- 2a. Do you HATE the as-of-yet undefined "Evangelicals" because they include Baptists who are mostly "black"? Are you totally RACIST? Is that why you HATE the as-of-yet undefined "Evangelicals"?

not sure where you are going with this.

I'm following your lead, as always. My questions stem from your comments.

 

[Cypress]

You can't "recognize" your Euro-Western "christian" modern achievements without giving 100% credit to building blocks given by the African/Asian folk. Period. And let's not forget the South American people. That is why you had the Mayans accurately charting celestial movements WITHOUT A TELESCOPE, or how the East Indians and Chinese developed treatment and cures in medicine WITHOUT drugs or internal surgery. And don't get me started on architecture ..... because there are ANCIENT relics and remnants of the aforementioned that Europe and North American "christian" science STILL can't figure out. Hell, it wasn't until the 1970's that Euro/Western medicine formally acknowledged and grudgingly allowed acupuncture to be used .... and they STILL refuse to embrace the Asian concepts of why it works, calling it a "tricking of nervous system". Some trick.

And did you ever stop and think that maybe people who learned to live with the land and flourish didn't have the need to create a "science" or technology that required industrial waste and nasty little side effects?

This is just historical fact. I don't begrudge modern Euro-Western science it's strides and accomplishments, but it just ticks me off when I see a patronizing attitude to what clearly surpassed and then pointed the way to better health and such.

I don't think any fair minded person could read anything I wrote as saying other civilizations outside of Western Europe were dumb.

I'm not even of Western European descent.

It's not taking anything away from ancient Mayan astronomers, or the Arab mathematician al-Khwarizmi to say that all the fundamental physics I learned in college was from Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein; all the fundamental chemistry I learned was from Dalton, Lavoisier, Mendeleev; all the fundamental biology I learned was from Darwin, Linnaeus, Mendel; all the fundamental geology I learned was from Hutton and Lyell.

And it's just a simply fact of history that western models of universities and science are what was ultimately adopted in Japan, China, and India.

I think all I mentioned previously were universities and modern science.

That doesn't take away anything from the accomplishments of other civilizations.

 

[IBDaMann]

You can't "recognize" your Euro-Western "christian" modern achievements without giving 100% credit to building blocks given by the African/Asian folk. Period.

You can't "recognize" your African/Asian folk's building blocks without giving 100% credit to the fundamental cornerstone carved out by the Australopithecus. Period.

You can't "recognize" your Australopithecus cornerstone without giving 100% credit to the foundation laid by Ardipithecus Ramidus. Period.

 

[IBDaMann]

... to say that all the fundamental physics I learned in college was from Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein;

Did you actually learn any fundamental physics? I think not. You believe in Global Warming, yes? You believe in Climate Change, yes?

Ergo, you didn't learn any fundamental physics, ever. You OBEY your political thought-masters who have ordered you to believe that you are some sort of thienth geniuth despite not grasping any fundamentals.