Everyone understands that Socialism is not Communism, right?

AProudLefty said:
Yes? Where in that site does it promote Communism?
Click to expand...
It doesn't use the word "Communism" because they, the DSA members, know that won't fly. Read the link carefully. They spell out exactly what Marx and Communism advocated as their economic platform. They just don't use the word "Communism" to do it.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, it isn't. By their own admission, they are trying Communism over again with a new label. It's 'New and Improved Communism!'


No, Capitalism is not about any of that. The closest in US history to a purely Capitalist economy came during the Robber Baron period.
Click to expand...
Your post is stupid. The dem party is not, in any way advocating to change the US system to a China like one party, one man rule.

Democratic socialism is basically indistinguishable from modern capitalist democracy such as the pre Trump US, other than a country like Norway prioritizes pushing money down to middle class and below where the US pushed it up to corporate, military and oligarchs.

You cannot even name anything other than that substantially that makes Norway that different from the US and if Norway simply switched that priority and began pushing money up while dismantling social services, they would be the US.
 
AProudLefty said:
Your feverish imagination. No one suggested as such.
Click to expand...
Terry just lies to himself.

Pushing the idea the democrats are advocating for China like governance and not Norway like is what he needs to believe.

Norway is a full on democratic State. The people vote and choose to push redistribution down and not up.

The US choose to push redistribution up and not down.

That does not make the US democratic and Norway communism. In fact the Norway model enjoys more popular support (of the people, for the people) whereas the US one requires diminishing the voter while giving disproportionate influence to corporations and the oligarchs.

Norway's version of democratic socialism is far closer to pure democracy whereas the US one, especially under Trump is marching towards authoritarianism, or kleptocracy.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The DSA is, and I just linked to proof in the post above.
Click to expand...
It does not say what you claim it says. I read it.

Maybe you do not understand what Communism is? I have been to two communist countries,
Stone said:
You always want to take all the fun out of everything! Hanging Commies is a good time. In Trump's 3rd term it may even be a national holiday!
:D
Click to expand...
You always inadvertently prove my point.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It doesn't use the word "Communism" because they, the DSA members, know that won't fly. Read the link carefully. They spell out exactly what Marx and Communism advocated as their economic platform. They just don't use the word "Communism" to do it.
Click to expand...
Where do they spell out the desire for one party rule, or taking over the Democratic process? Where do the spell out taking over all private ownership of land? Where do they spell out taking over all industry?

Are you not understanding what Communism is?
 
Jarod said:
BAM, and they are not promoting Communism.
Click to expand...
The only time anything remotely approaching true communism made an appearance in world history was after the 1905 revolution when individual communities in Russia established local soviets, which were just autonomous elected councils of agricultural peasants, industrial workers, and soldiers. These local autonomous soviets were supposed organize strikes and establish local worker cooperatives.
 
Cypress said:
The only time anything approaching true communism made an appearance in world history was after the 1905 revolution when individual communities in Russia established local soviets, which were just autonomous elected councils of agricultural peasants, industrial workers, and soldiers. These local autonomous soviets were supposed organize strikes and establish local worker cooperatives.
Click to expand...
I think, on a small scale Cuba has practiced most elements of Government running everything, but Cuba is small to be its own Soviet. While I am not defending Communism, it has not worked well in Cuba, however we never saw what it would be like without a full American refusal to trade or work with them. They are 90 Miles from the USA, and any small nation in the western hemisphere would have the problems they have with a full American boycott.
 
QP! said:
Your post is stupid. The dem party is not, in any way advocating to change the US system to a China like one party, one man rule.
Click to expand...

The DSA, and several other far Left third parties run on the Democrat(ic) Party ticket. That makes them one and the same.
QP! said:
Democratic socialism is basically indistinguishable from modern capitalist democracy such as the pre Trump US, other than a country like Norway prioritizes pushing money down to middle class and below where the US pushed it up to corporate, military and oligarchs.
Click to expand...

Not according to democratic socialists.
QP! said:
You cannot even name anything other than that substantially that makes Norway that different from the US and if Norway simply switched that priority and began pushing money up while dismantling social services, they would be the US.
Click to expand...

Norway is a tiny nation. It has about the same land area as Montana. Its topography is relatively homogeneous as is its population. Because of the topography, Norway can make widespread use of hydroelectric power. So, there are substantial differences between the US and Norway.
 
Jarod said:
I think, on a small scale Cuba has practiced most elements of Government running everything, but Cuba is small to be its own Soviet. While I am not defending Communism, it has not worked well in Cuba, however we never saw what it would be like without a full American refusal to trade or work with them. They are 90 Miles from the USA, and any small nation in the western hemisphere would have the problems they have with a full American boycott.
Click to expand...
Cuba, which i have been to numerous times is not Communism despite the claim. It is a dictatorship with minimal redistribution.

China is the best example in the modern age as they have a strong focus on redistribution to build the lower classes
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The DSA, and several other far Left third parties run on the Democrat(ic) Party ticket. That makes them one and the same.
Click to expand...
Fascists, KKK and nazis run on the republican ticket so that makes them one and the sane.

Or we can move away from Terry style idiocy in debate.
 
QP! said:
Cuba, which i have been to numerous times is not Communism despite the claim. It is a dictatorship with minimal redistribution.

China is the best example in the modern age as they have a strong focus on redistribution to build the lower classes
Click to expand...
Glad to know someone else who has been there. I agree it is a dictatorship, but isn't all Communism a dictatorship? They hord the money at the top which is not what Communism is supposed to do.

When I was in Cuba, I saw the government centers with lists of jobs for unemployed citizens, and educational opportunities for those unqualified. I Saw the bodegas that mostly operated on government food ration books, but were happy to sell us items with money. This was 11 years ago, and I understand things are much worse there now.

The are clearly many communist elements. The television has entertainment and propaganda news. There are no Commercials. There are no billboards and very few advertisements. I accidently bumped into an art exhibit, with a huge crowd of people lined up to see it, but there was no way to find out about it without being in the know.

Anyway, I saw it as very Communist, and there were some good things going on, the people had time to focus on art. Musicians were playing music without begging or even asking for money. The park was full of sports and musicians. I saw nobody who looked hungry. Of course the buildings were falling down and dilapidated, but I mostly chaucked that up to the embargo, they do not have the needed natural resources and cant easily import them.

China is likely a more close example of Communism, but they have great international trade and benefit from the Capitalist trading partners. They are also huge with a lot of natural resources. I have never been to China, the closest I ever got was Hong Kong before the transfer.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
...

Norway is a tiny nation. It has about the same land area as Montana. Its topography is relatively homogeneous as is its population. Because of the topography, Norway can make widespread use of hydroelectric power. So, there are substantial differences between the US and Norway.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant.

Norway has the best functioning example of democratic socialism we can model from

I am not making a claim 'it works in Norway thus it will work in the US ' to which your reply would then be relevant.

I'm saying the Dem party modeling off that and TRYING IT, where the simply reallocate some of the masses of tax payer money currently going to corporations and oligarchs while imposing a fairer tax code is SOMETHING the US could do to see if democratic socialism will produce better results than the current corporate capitalism system does.

Ultimately your guess/opinion or mine off which will produce the superior result is Irrelevant . The point is the are both democracy versions being the center left and center right versions.

Trying to equate it with communism is just dishonest and stupid
 
Jarod said:
Glad to know someone else who has been there. I agree it is a dictatorship, but isn't all Communism a dictatorship? They hord the money at the top which is not what Communism is supposed to do.

When I was in Cuba, I saw the government centers with lists of jobs for unemployed citizens, and educational opportunities for those unqualified. I Saw the bodegas that mostly operated on government food ration books, but were happy to sell us items with money. This was 11 years ago, and I understand things are much worse there now.

The are clearly many communist elements. The television has entertainment and propaganda news. There are no Commercials. There are no billboards and very few advertisements. I accidently bumped into an art exhibit, with a huge crowd of people lined up to see it, but there was no way to find out about it without being in the know.

Anyway, I saw it as very Communist, and there were some good things going on, the people had time to focus on art. Musicians were playing music without begging or even asking for money. The park was full of sports and musicians. I saw nobody who looked hungry. Of course the buildings were falling down and dilapidated, but I mostly chaucked that up to the embargo, they do not have the needed natural resources and cant easily import them.

China is likely a more close example of Communism, but they have great international trade and benefit from the Capitalist trading partners. They are also huge with a lot of natural resources. I have never been to China, the closest I ever got was Hong Kong before the transfer.
Click to expand...
Ya all communist state have dictators but not all dictatorships are communist.

The core of true commism is how the wealth is allocated such that each individual gets its needs met, and no class structure exists.

I don't think the Chinese leadership are good people who simply want to share the countries wealth to uplift the Middle and lower class. I think Chinese leadership is so obsessed with the long game of making China the dominant country as the US era ends and they realize it was the new deal and massive investment in the middle class and below that allowed the US to overtake the prior world powers and leave them in the dust.

They are intent on repeating that and if that means building a thriving middle class and below, so be it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top