Archaeology of the New Testament

[Into the Night]

Ok. That is also their opinions.

The organization or disorganization of the universe plays absolutely no role in my views about gods.

Fair enough.

Again, you see what you want to see because of what you want to believe.

He is not seeing. He is imaging. The Universe is unorganized. He's desperately trying to associate 'organization' into something that isn't organized.
Yes...it is because of his religion.

This is how religion works in the absence of true evidence for a god.

You cannot make ANY evidence just disappear.

You find other reasons to believe.

Just like you.

A relative survived stage 4 cancer - God did it.

I wouldn't know who else to blame!

You narrowly miss a flight that goes down in flames - God did it.

Why not?

You just happen to buy a lottery ticket, which you never do! and win $10,000 - God did it.

God is not a casino.

The universe exists (and it's SO amazing!)- God must have done it.

How?

The Universe is unorganized? Why do you think God did that?

 

[Into the Night]

You are acting like IntoTheNight.

Looks like you haven't been paying attention!

The opinions of history's most preeminent physicists and astronomers about the nature of the physical universe carry an extraordinary amount of weight.

Contextomy fallacy. Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for everyone.

It doesn't have to. Steven Hawking and Richard Dawkins are both basically atheists,

Neither is an atheist. Both belong to the Church of No God, a fundamentalist style religion. This is the same religion as ZenMode.

but both have the scientific integrity to state that the universe taken as a whole appears organized, rationally intelligible, and lawful.

The Universe is unorganized.
The Universe is not sentient.
Go learn what 'rational', 'intelligible', and 'lawful' mean and where these words are used.

I became acutely aware of the order and organization of the universe when I was an agnostic/atheist studying physics, chemistry, and astronomy in college.

An agnostic is not an atheist. You are not an atheist.

It has nothing to do with cancer.

The question is whether or not the best explanation for a lawful, logical, and rational universe is that it was caused by irrational, inanimate random chance. That's just a question of pure logic anyone can answer by inference or abstraction.

Holy Words (lawful, logical, rational, irrational, inanimate, random, chance, pure logic, inference, abstraction).
Try English. It works better. Too many buzzwords.
Denial of probability mathematics. Math error: Failure to declare boundary. Failure to declare randX.

The Universe is unorganized.
The Universe is not a law.
The Universe is not logic.
The Universe is not a mathematical division.
The Universe is not mathematics at all.
The Universe is not a probability.
The Universe is not inference.
The Universe is not abstract.

The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

I posted their own words,

Contextomy fallacy. Omniscience fallacy.

and more importantly you can't even do science unless you believe the universe as a whole is rationally intelligible, organised, orderly.

Science is not a verb.
Holy words (rational, intelligible, orderly).
Buzzword fallacies.

The Universe is not any theory of science.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is unorganized.

I'm the only poster on this thread who uses a medley of science, deduction, history, reason, inference to support my ideas.

You have already denied several theories of science.
Science is not a medley.
Holy Words (deduction, history, reason, inference). Buzzword fallacies.
The Universe is not deduced.
The Universe is not history.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is not inference.
The Universe is not any theory of science.

The Universe is unorganized.

Scientism isn't science. It's philosophy. It's a philosophical worldview. One that claims we can only know truth through science.

Your religion is not philosophy.
You deny philosophy.
Philosophy is not mindlessly chanting and preaching.
Science is not a Universal Truth.
Philosophy is not a Universal Truth.
The Universe is not any theory of science.
The Universe is not philosophy.

The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Cypress]

Contextomy fallacy. Omniscience fallacy.

Science is not a verb.
Holy words (rational, intelligible, orderly).
Buzzword fallacies.

The Universe is not any theory of science.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is unorganized.

You have already denied several theories of science.
Science is not a medley.
Holy Words (deduction, history, reason, inference). Buzzword fallacies.
The Universe is not deduced.
The Universe is not history.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is not inference.
The Universe is not any theory of science.

The Universe is unorganized.

Your religion is not philosophy.
You deny philosophy.
Philosophy is not mindlessly chanting and preaching.
Science is not a Universal Truth.
Philosophy is not a Universal Truth.
The Universe is not any theory of science.
The Universe is not philosophy.

The Universe is unorganized.

I think it's fascinating how much @ZenMode and you agree.

 

[Into the Night]

I think it's fascinating how much @ZenMode and you agree.

You obviously haven't been paying attention!

 

[ZenMode]

The question is whether or not the best explanation for a lawful, logical, and rational universe is that it was caused by irrational, inanimate random chance. That's just a question of pure logic anyone can answer by inference or abstraction.

There's no more evidence for a deity creating the universe than there is for a 6 legged rainbow unicorn creating the universe, if the universe was even created.

You are hamming on this because of what you want to believe.

As I've said many times, it's just modern day God of the Gaps stuff. Ancient man looked at the sun and stars in amazement and decided that a god must have created it. You're doing the same thing thousands of years later.

 

[ZenMode]

You cannot make ANY evidence just disappear.

I'll ask just to expose the fact that you won't answer.

What evidence for gods?

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

An insult is not a point. Mantra 1a. Lame.

Whatever Dude!

 

[Into the Night]

There's no more evidence for a deity

You can't make any evidence just disappear, Void.

creating the universe

How do you know it was created?

than there is for a 6 legged rainbow unicorn creating the universe,

You certainly like unicorns. You think they have 6 legs now?

if the universe was even created.

How do you know it was?

You are hamming on this because of what you want to believe.

I am not stating any belief.

As I've said many times, it's just modern day God of the Gaps stuff.

Who is this 'god of the gaps'? What 'gap'?

Ancient man looked at the sun and stars in amazement and decided that a god must have created it. You're doing the same thing thousands of years later.

You don't get to speak for everyone. Omniscience fallacy.
How do you know a god did not create the Sun?

 

[Into the Night]

I'll ask just to expose the fact that you won't answer.

What evidence for gods?

RQAA.

Go back and read them.

 

[ZenMode]

RQAA.

Go back and read them.

As expected.

 

[IBDaMann]

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking do not believe in any Abrahamic or personal god, but they still agree with me that the universe is organized and rationally intelligible.

You speak as though they are alive, and that you speak for them. You are clearly delusional through and through.

A universe that can be described with the pure logic of math, is predictable, and obeys consistent universal laws can only be described as organized.

Incorrect. Epic fail. Such a random dust cloud can only be described as "disorganized," "random" yet "deterministic. "

You wouldn't have these embarrassing problems if you would only learn what words mean.

 

[Cypress]

"disorganized" = "random" yet "deterministic. "

​

 

[Cypress]

You are hamming on this because of what you want to believe.

I believed the universe was marvelously organized and mathematically rational when I was an agnostic flirting with atheism studying physics and astronomy in college.

As I've said many times, it's just modern day God of the Gaps stuff. Ancient man looked at the sun and stars in amazement and decided that a god must have created it. You're doing the same thing thousands of years later.

Science doesn't explain. Science describes.

The origin, order, and lawfullnes of the universe is not a gap. It's a philosophical question; a question of logic.

As for the order and rational intelligibility of the universe, are free to think you and IntoTheNight are correct - and that Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and me are wrong.

 

[Cypress]

The Universe is unorganized!

Every electron, every quark, every photon in the universe precisely obeys a universal set of rationally intelligible rules.

 

[IBDaMann]

[ hopeless confusion omitted ]​

I never accused you of knowing what those words mean.

 

[Cypress]

I never accused you of knowing what those words mean.

iBDaMann: "The motions of particles are random but determined!"

​

 

[IBDaMann]

Every electron, every quark, every photon in the universe precisely obeys a universal set of rationally intelligible rules.

I appreciate your tacit confession that the universe is a random dust cloud. I commend you on your implied admission that, to the best of your knowedge, you remain unaware of any test of randomness that the universe fails.

It was pretty silly of you to claim that the laws of Nature prevent anything from being random, e.g. the distribution of matter and energy throughout the universe. It was also silly of you to claim that everything is known to humans simply by virtue of the fact that the universe is not alive to care about how much we don't know about the universe.

It was rather idiotic of you to post science models as supporting the idea that the random universe is "coherent" when you don't understand anything about any of the science models you posted.

 

[IBDaMann]

iBDaMann: "The motions of particles are random but determined!"

​

I did not write that.

 

[Cypress]

I did not write that!

​

"disorganized," = "random" yet "deterministic. "

​