Archaeology of the New Testament

[Dutch Uncle]

I bet it's a rainbow unicorn that farts confetti.

You're free to believe that.

 

[Into the Night]

No you haven't. You had subjective complaints about the physiology or psychology of one hominid species on one tiny planet.

Humans make up essentially zero percent of the matter and energy in the universe. You cannot point to homo sapiens as being proof of a universal property of the cosmos as a whole.

Yet you do.

More importantly, homo sapiens are entirely composed of trillions and trillions of quarks and electrons - each one of which is precisely following the physical rules of quantum electrodynamics and quantum chromodynamics. That doesn't sound unorganized at all.

The Universe is not a quark.
The Universe is not an electron.
The Universe is not a human.
There is no such thing as 'quantum electrodynamics'.
There is no such thing as 'quantum chromodynamics'.

You're talking about the acceleration of matter through a tensor field according to Einstein, which we call gravity. This acceleration in this spacetime field is precisely defined by a mathematical relationship, and can hardly be described as an unorganized and arbitrary physical phenomenon.

The Universe is not a tensor.
The Universe is not a field.
The Universe is not gravity.
A field does not 'accelerate'.
The Universe is not mathematics.

The Universe is unorganized.

Okay, that's agnostic. A genuine atheist has to be confident that a lawful and mathematically rational universe was caused somehow by the inanimate and irrational.

Go learn what 'atheist' means. It has no such requirement.
The Universe is not a law.
The Universe is not mathematics.
The Universe is not a division.
The Universe is not sentient.

But this is good. I've got you tacitly acknowledging that there is at least circumstantial and inferential evidence that there might be some rational agency underlying the origin and nature of the universe.

How do you know it has an 'origin'?
Inference is not evidence.
Circumstance is not evidence.
An agency is not a division.

The Universe is unorganized.

I haven't made any reference to Zeus, Odin, or Ra.

So?

I simply made the case that it seems logically incoherent that the rational and lawful can be caused by the inanimate and irrational.

The Universe is not a division.
The Universe is not logic.
The Universe is not a coherency.
The Universe is not a law.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is not a cause.

The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

That's self-interest, not morality.

Morality is based on selfless self-sacrifice for the welfare of others, with no expectations of being reciprocated or paid back.

See for example: the parable of the good Samaritan, or the story of Oskar Schindler.

Redefinition fallacies.

Morality is a set of core principles of behavior.
Your morality is unique to you.
His morality is unique to him.

Your morality is based on your own reality.

There is no 'absolute morality'.
There is no 'absolute reality'.

 

[Into the Night]

I originally wrote a much longer response, but erased it because it was all "beside the point".

Again, this is just conflating being able to explain after the fact with a conscious being creating it.

The other day I saw a video of a tire flying off of a moving car and rolling a very long distance before crashing into a building. With the right knowledge, I could explain the speed of the tire when it left the vehicle. I could explain the movement of the tire and why it followed the path it did. I could explain why it lost and gained speed, why it bounced as high as it did, why it turned or didn't turn and with how much force it impacted the structure that it eventually collided with.

Does that mean that a conscious being set the tire in motion?

Yes. A conscious being set the tire in motion.

 

[ZenMode]

The Universe is not a bucket of tennis balls.
You are dumping the bucket. You have the power to dictate their movement.

How do you know it did?

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void.

Argument of ignorance fallacy.

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void.
Attempted negative proof fallacy.
Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

Redefinition fallacy.
Faith is a circular argument by another name (the Argument of Faith). That itself is NOT a circular argument fallacy. Trying to PROVE a circular argument True or False is not possible. This is what a fundamentalist does. Your fundamentalism is no different than his, other than the circular arguments you are both trying to prove.

You are both fundamentalists.

 

[ZenMode]

Yes. A conscious being set the tire in motion.

 

[ZenMode]

You're free to believe that.

I'm actually not.

 

[Into the Night]

Given sufficient information you can predict the past or future position, momentum, velocity of any matter in the universe. The fact that we can use mathematical laws to predict the past and the future certainly does not point to an unorganized, random, arbitrary universe.

The Universe is not mathematics.
The Universe is not a law.
The Universe is not a momentum.
The Universe is not a velocity.
The Universe is not a position.
You cannot predict the past. Go learn English.

The Universe is unorganized.

In fact, it is one of the great mysteries of the universe that human-invented mathematics so accurately predict and reflect the cosmos. There was a famous paper written by a preeminent physicist about this titled "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics".

The Universe is not a human.
The Universe is not mathematics.
The Universe is not a paper.

The Universe is unorganized.

Humans don't even have an agreed upon definition for conciousness, nor can we explain what it actually is.

The Universe is not sentient.

I don't like to use vague and poorly defined language,

Yes you do.

so what I would say is that a lawful, mathematically rational, finely tuned universe seems to point to an underlying rational agency or organizing principle.
It seems logically incoherent to me that the rational could be caused by the inanimate and irrational.

The Universe is not a law.
The Universe is not mathematics.
The Universe is not logic.
The Universe is not a division.
The Universe is not a musical instrument.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is not 'coherency'.

The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

That is a WHOLE lotta words to avoid answering a simple question.

Does the fact that a sufficiently educated person could explain, after the fact, all events surrounding the tire, mean that a conscious being set the tire in motion.

A conscious being set the tire in motion.

 

[Into the Night]

Physics is what set the tire in motion, not a conscious being.

Physics does not set anything in motion, Void.
Physics is not sentient.

A conscious being set the tire in motion.

Correct. It is unknown and I'm more than happy to say "I don't know".

I bet it's a rainbow unicorn that farts confetti.

Back to your Holy Rainbow Unicorn. Why do you believe in this god?

 

[Into the Night]

Argument of the Stone fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

I'm actually not.

Your religion prevents you? You DO have strange religions.

 

[Into the Night]

Clueless again, eh?

 

[Cypress]

There is no such thing as 'quantum electrodynamics'!

"Quantum electrodynamics (QED), quantum field theory of the interactions of charged particles with the electromagnetic field."

~ Encyclopedia Britannica​

There is no such thing as 'quantum chromodynamics'!

"Quantum chromodynamics (QCD) is the theory that explains how quarks and gluons interact through the strong force to produce larger subatomic particles such as protons and neutrons."

~ U.S. Department of Energy​

​

https://www.britannica.com/science/quantum-electrodynamics-physics​

​

https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsquantum-chromodynamics​

​

 

[Cypress]

That is a WHOLE lotta words to avoid answering a simple question.

Does the fact that a sufficiently educated person could explain, after the fact, all events surrounding the tire, mean that a conscious being set the tire in motion.

A tire is not the universe.

If you can precisely explain scientifically what consciousness is and what causes it, then we can use that word as an explanatory mechanism. Otherwise, I'm under no obligation to use poorly understood and poorly defined words. I'm going to use plain English words for which there are simple universal definitions.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

I started out with an agnostic belief when I became acutely aware how physics and astronomy showed the universe was marvelously organized and lawful. Inexplicably organized as Einstein would say.

Of course it means something, even if we don't exactly know what it means.

Ultimately, after years of reflection I just couldn't convince myself that the best explanation for an organized, lawful, mathematically rational universe would be an irrational, inanimate, random cause. That's logically incoherent.

You've had three thousand posts to convince me the cause of the universe was irrational, inanimate, random chance and you've avoided the topic like it's the plague.

God of the gaps is just a turn of phrase atheists invented.

There are no gaps. Science doesn't explain anything. Science describes.

The ultimate explanation for what caused the origin of the universe, what caused the mathematical laws of physics, what caused the fundamental forces and physical constants, what caused the fine tuning is a question of logic and philosophy. It's not a scientific question.

Disagreed on an unorganized Universe. The Universe has rules in the form of physics. The Big Bang was the equivalent of breaking the rack in a game of billiards. If the force and angle of impact of the cue ball is known, the motions of the racked balls can be predicted since they all act IAW the laws of physics.

It's the same with the Universe. The only thing that alters the course of matter in the Universe from being set in motion by the Big Bang IAW with the laws of physics is life.

Matter didn't exist before the Big Bang!

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Fixed that for you.

your masonic God of reason is a demon.

you refuse to examine the reason of morality, that proves your God is demon.

morality means people working together and flourishing and Satan hates humanity, like Nazis, like postmodernist pedophiles.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

A tire is an artificial construct. That's a big clue right there. Working it's trajectory backwards, a person would be able to trace where it came from.

Toxic has an old tire leaning against her house

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Go learn what 'moral' means.
Free masonry has no specific god.
Free masonry does not condone Shinto.

freemasonry has the great architect who is lucifer.


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Matthew 5:33-37 teaches that Jesus advised against taking oaths at all, emphasizing that one's word should be trustworthy without the need for swearing. Instead, He encouraged honesty by saying, "Let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No."
Church of the Great God newcovenantgj.org

 

[Jerry Mathers]

do not live your life in blind loyalty.

you must use your individual discernment in all matters.