Archaeology of the New Testament

Cypress said:
If nothing is real but matter and energy, how is the universe caused by nothing?

How are organization and lawful order caused by the immaterial, irrational, and inanimate?

If your brain is just a collection of quarks and electrons, are you just deluding yourself that your mother's love or wife's love is genuinely real and freely-given? Or is it just the deterministic chemical interactions of electrons moving around? Are you just a meat robot?

If nothing exists but quarks, electrons, and bosons, doesn't that mean morality is really just relative and utterly subjective? Aren't we deluding ourselves that there is really anything objectively right or wrong?
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Spirit
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, an apple falls because of gravity.

Yes. Forces, and what man labels as laws, have existed faronger than man.
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Man created the fundamental forces, named them, and wrote the equations concerning them.
ZenMode said:
Forces, like gravity, have existed for as long as the universe has.
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Man created the word 'gravity'.
ZenMode said:
You are clearly alluding to a god.

Yes

Sure there is.

There is objective right and wrong. Moral and immoral.
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Yes there is. You are even claiming a right and wrong.
ZenMode said:
What you're really getting at is free will. The fact that we don't have free will is a positive, not a negative.
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You have free will. This is inherent in Man and animals.
 
IBDaMann said:
This question was already addressed, and you did not like the answer, so you became a broken record, asking the same question over and over, hoping beyond hope that if you ask a sufficient number of times, the answer will somehow change.

1. What "caused" your God? If everything must be "caused" by something else, you have some explaining to do. Note that @Into the Night is a Christian whose religious views do not suffer from your imposed fatal flaw. You might want to ask him for some assistance on the matter. Perhaps the secret is not trying to prove your religion is somehow "settled science".

2. Why must anyone assume that "prior" to the universe there was "nothing"? Were you there? Your question presumes that there was "nothing" prior to the universe, so you have some explaining to do before your question can be accepted with its assumptions.

In short, your broken-record gibberish is annoyingly incoherent. The response to your question will not change until something about it changes.



Let me check, ... yep, the universe is still a randomly distributed dust cloud.

Let me check, ... yep, you still haven't identified any test of randomness that the universe fails.

Let me check, ... yep, Nature's determinism does not have the authority to classify randomness as order; that would require an Executive Order.


There are no quarks, at least not that anyone has ever shown.


This would be a good way of describing it if you hadn't implied only electrons.


This is your way of bastardizing through sarcastic dismissal an otherwise good description.


There are no bosons either, at least that anyone has ever shown.


Nope.


I can't speak for those who are so deluding themselves. You delude yourself on many things.
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we do have free will. totalitarian ass-master.
 
Into the Night said:
Man created the fundamental forces, named them, and wrote the equations concerning them.
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No he didn't. Man didn't create gravity, magnetism, etc What a ridiculous claim.
Into the Night said:
Man created the word 'gravity'.
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Creating the word gravity isn't creating the force we all gravity. Something you already know.
Into the Night said:
You have free will. This is inherent in Man and animals.
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no we don't. there's no way, biologically speaking, that free will is even possible.
 
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Cypress said:
"Matter is a concentrated form of energy, and the two are interchangeable."
~European Center for Nuclear Research (CERN)​
​
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YARP

Matter is not energy.
Energy is not matter.
You cannot convert energy into matter.
You cannot create or destroy energy.
You cannot create or destroy matter.

Every form of energy conserves matter.
Every form of matter conserves energy.

It is possible to convert potential energy in matter into kinetic energy.
It is possible to convert kinetic energy in matter to potential energy.

Even in a nuclear reaction, matter is conserved, and energy is conserved. It is not conversion of matter into energy.

Einstein's equation relates mass (at rest) and the potential energy it has. 'At rest' simply means the mass is moving with zero difference of speed to an observer (which is also always moving).

Since a mass is always moving (even the observer is always moving, and is likewise mass!), there is energy there.

If a mass moves differently from an observer, that mass seems to increase. This increased mass behaves just like a real mass.

A photon has no mass, but it's momentum gives a mass. Einstein's equation simplifies down to E=pc in this case.

The full equation is E^2=(pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2 where 'E' is energy, 'p' is velocity, 'c' is the speed of light.

For a 'stationary' mass (at rest), the equation simplifies down to E=mc^2, since there is no velocity relative to the observer. For this case, 'E' is the potential energy of the mass. Change its velocity relative to the observer (which takes energy to do so!), and the apparent mass appears to increase.

Thus, it is often said that matter and energy are 'equivalent' to each other, but they are not the same thing.
 
ZenMode said:
No he didn't. Man didn't create gravity, magnetism, etc What a ridiculous claim.
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Man created the concept of gravity.
Man created the concept of magnetism.
Man created all the mathematics related to these two forces.
ZenMode said:
Creating the word gravity isn't creating the force we all gravity. Something you already know.
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The Universe is not gravity.
The Universe is not magnetism.
The Universe is not a force.

The Universe is unorganized.
ZenMode said:
no we don't. there's no way, biologically speaking, that free will is even possible.
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Yet it exists. You are free to post here. Nothing is forcing you to. You are free to decide what your religions are. No one and nothing is compelling you to.

You are free to make a decision. You are not free of the consequences of that decision.

That's called 'free will', Void. There is no other name for it.
 
Cypress said:
Science, philosophy, and logic are about making progress, not necessarily just about getting the ultimate answer. We can use simple logic to decide whether it's reasonable to believe a rational and lawful universe had a rational cause, or if it's more reasonable to believe the cause was irrational and inanimate.
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Define 'progrress'.
There is no 'ultimate answer'.
There is no 'ultimate equation'.
The Universe is not science.
The Universe is not philosophy.
The Universe is not logic.
The Universe is not progress.
The Universe is not an Answer.
The Universe is not a religion.
The Universe is not a division.
The Universe is not a law.
The Universe is not a cause.
The Universe is not sentient.
The Universe is not a strange loop.

The Universe is unorganized.
 
ZenMode said:
To clarify, I'm an atheist because the evidence for gods is so poor, not because of my beliefs abouty brain.

You also believe in quarks and electrons. You just believe a sky wizard put them there.
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You are not an atheist.
You cannot make any evidence just disapper.
You cannot blame your Sky Wizard on anybody else.
 
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