Massachusetts Democrats put bill to make Islam a state religion

[AProudLefty]

Okay. From H 3351:

Members of the commission shall reside in the commonwealth who have demonstrated a commitment to the Muslim American community.

Members of the commission shall reside in the commonwealth who have demonstrated a commitment to the Christian American community

How do they do that? By being Muslim seems the obvious answer.

How? Christians have to express their faiths and attend services.

(2) inform the public and leaders of business, education, human services, health care, state and local governments and the communications media of the unique cultural, social, ethnic, economic and educational issues affecting American Muslims in the commonwealth;

How would the commission do this?

How would Christians demonstrate that?

foster unity among the American Muslim community and organizations in the commonwealth by promoting cooperation and sharing of information and encouraging collaboration and joint activities;

Yes. Christians collaborate with each other. They have activities.

In other words, this government sanctioned commission would promote Islam as one of its purposes, and try to make Islam a united front across the state.

Christians have tried, even successfully, have government sanction their beliefs and values in government.

identify and recommend qualified American Muslims for appointive positions at all levels of government, including boards and commissions, as the commission considers necessary and appropriate;

So qualified Christians is a nono?

This one says the commission would recommend persons based on their religion as suitable for appointment to government positions.

So it's a no no for Christians. No person of faith shall hold an office in government.

assess programs and practices in all state agencies as they affect American Muslims, as the commission considers necessary and appropriate;

And?

What is necessary and appropriate? Prayer call and time to do it periodically throughout the day maybe?

Does the bill say that?

Are Christian prayers appropriate in government?

Posting of Islamic messaging in government workplaces? How about removal of anything Islam finds disagreeable or haram from those workplaces?

What messaging? BTW there have been Christian messaging and the removal.

The powers of the commission shall include... ...establishing and maintaining offices that it considers necessary,

Ok?

Does that mean it could establish an office to ensure the promotion of Islam in every town and city in the state if it considered that "necessary?"

Again, where is this promotion of Islam?

The commission may accept and solicit funds, including any gifts, donations, grants, or bequests, or any federal funds for any of the purposes of this section. These funds shall be deposited in a separate account with the state secretary’s office, be received by the state secretary on behalf of the commonwealth, and be expended by the commission in accordance with law.

Just like Christians and Jews. But I don't see you complaining.

So, Islamic organizations and directly religious ones could fund this commission without limit making it a powerful influence within the state.

Christianity and Judaism are a powerful influence and force in Washington D.C. But I don't see you posting about that.

H3351, intentionally or not, creates a commission with the power to make Islam a state funded and all but openly endorsed religion backed by the power of government.

Back to the retarded drivel.

 

[AProudLefty]

We're not talking about me.

You're here obviously being taken by @T. A. Gardner's obvious bait.

 

[countryboy]

You're here obviously being taken by @T. A. Gardner's obvious bait.

Who? What bait?

 

[AProudLefty]

Who? What bait?

The bill does not promote Islam. You've been had.

@T. A. Gardner created this bait thread.

 

[christiefan915]

Christians founded this nation. Never should have been tolerant of Muslims.

Muslims in Morocco were the first to recognize the US as a nation back in 1700s.

"Morocco was the first country to recognize the United States as a nation in 1777, shortly after the Declaration of Independence. This recognition was formalized through the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship in 1786, making it the longest unbroken treaty relationship in U.S. history."

 

[christiefan915]

Wrong. Answer these:

Is Islam a religion?

Is it illegal under the US constitution and law for the government to promote or advocate for a religion?

Does the creation of a commission dedicated to issues and advocacy of Islam constitute government promotion of one religion over others?

Are there any other such commissions dedicated to other the issues and advocacy of other religions?

Honest answers to those four questions say that what Massachusetts is doing is illegal.

Our government seems to be promoting and advocating for Christianity.

 

[countryboy]

The bill does not promote Islam. You've been had.

@T. A. Gardner created this bait thread.

I never said it did, I never read it. You're the one making the claim it doesn't. My only comment was, if you took this exact legislation and changed the word Islam, to Christianity, you would be having a fucking conniption fit. And yola damn well know it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Members of the commission shall reside in the commonwealth who have demonstrated a commitment to the Christian American community

How? Christians have to express their faiths and attend services.

That doesn't require they demonstrate that to government to get employment. The commission requires members to do just that.

How would Christians demonstrate that?

They wouldn't and don't have to. But if there were a say, equivalent commission for Christianity, this might include:

Church membership and attendence
Being able to recite important passages or things from their religion.
Possession of symbols and paraphernalia associated with their religion.

Yes. Christians collaborate with each other. They have activities.

They don't do it as part of a government sanctioned, official government function, or part of a government job.

Christians have tried, even successfully, have government sanction their beliefs and values in government.

Successfully? How? Even posting the 10 Commandments has been legally restricted.

So qualified Christians is a nono?

There is no religious test for government employment. This Islamic commission is an exception, not the rule.

So it's a no no for Christians. No person of faith shall hold an office in government.

Wrong. There is no religious test for employment, but this commission would create one for being on the commission.

And?

Does the bill say that?

It doesn't explicitly. One can reasonably assume if the commission were created that employment conditions that ran counter to Islamic values and religious requirements would be ones the commission would seek to eliminate. It might even go so far as to require all government employees to accept certain aspects of Islam in their daily work routine.

Are Christian prayers appropriate in government?

Not as a group or required thing. Salah (the daily prayer requirement for practicing Muslims) does require group practice and would require scheduled times during the workday.

What messaging? BTW there have been Christian messaging and the removal.

My earlier example of the 10 Commandments as one.

Ok?

Again, where is this promotion of Islam?

If there is an official government office in a town established by this commission for the furtherment of Islam which is one of the commission's stated purposes, that amounts to promotion of Islam.

Just like Christians and Jews. But I don't see you complaining.

Name an official government body, agency, or other government sanctioned and funded operation that promotes Christianity or Judaism. This commission is to be government sanctioned and funded in part or whole.

Christianity and Judaism are a powerful influence and force in Washington D.C. But I don't see you posting about that.

True. Islamic leaders and such can do the same thing, but NOT as part of the government. This commission is an official part of the government.

Back to the retarded drivel.

Right back at ya!

 

[AProudLefty]

I never said it did, I never read it.

@T. A. Gardner, the creator of this thread, said it did.

You're the one making the claim it doesn't. My only comment was, if you took this exact legislation and changed the word Islam, to Christianity, you would be having a fucking conniption fit. And yola damn well know it.

Um why shouldn't/wouldn't we bring it up if it had happened?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

@T. A. Gardner, the creator of this thread, said it did.

Um why shouldn't/wouldn't we bring it up if it had happened?

It would be equally egregious and an affront to US values if such a commission for Christians or Jews was proposed to exist.

 

[countryboy]

@T. A. Gardner, the creator of this thread, said it did.

We're talking about what you said.

Um why shouldn't/wouldn't we bring it up if it had happened?

That's not what you and I are talking about. We're talking about the fact that you would be throwing a fit if this were a Christian legislation proposal with the exact same wording save for one word.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

Members of the commission shall reside in the commonwealth who have demonstrated a commitment to the Christian American community

How? Christians have to express their faiths and attend services.

How would Christians demonstrate that?

Yes. Christians collaborate with each other. They have activities.

Christians have tried, even successfully, have government sanction their beliefs and values in government.

So qualified Christians is a nono?

So it's a no no for Christians. No person of faith shall hold an office in government.

And?

Does the bill say that?

Are Christian prayers appropriate in government?

What messaging? BTW there have been Christian messaging and the removal.

Ok?

Again, where is this promotion of Islam?

Just like Christians and Jews. But I don't see you complaining.

Christianity and Judaism are a powerful influence and force in Washington D.C. But I don't see you posting about that.

Back to the retarded drivel.

Judaism and xtianity beliefs have nothing in common, That's why the term Judo-christian is bullshit, Jews never say that

 

[AProudLefty]

That doesn't require they demonstrate that to government to get employment.

Another invention/addition to the bill?

The commission requires members to do just that.


They wouldn't and don't have to. But if there were a say, equivalent commission for Christianity, this might include:

Church membership and attendence
Being able to recite important passages or things from their religion.
Possession of symbols and paraphernalia associated with their religion.



They don't do it as part of a government sanctioned, official government function, or part of a government job.

Another invention? This is about CIVIL RIGHTS and INCLUSION of American Muslims.

Had the bill been about Christians and Jews, you wouldn't invent anything and be honest.

Successfully? How? Even posting the 10 Commandments has been legally restricted.

LGBT rights for example.

There is no religious test for government employment. This Islamic commission is an exception, not the rule.

Another invention. You keep saying Islam. Why?

Wrong. There is no religious test for employment, but this commission would create one for being on the commission.

Yet another invention.

It doesn't explicitly. One can reasonably assume if the commission were created that employment conditions that ran counter to Islamic values and religious requirements would be ones the commission would seek to eliminate. It might even go so far as to require all government employees to accept certain aspects of Islam in their daily work routine.

Where? Yet another invention?

Not as a group or required thing. Salah (the daily prayer requirement for practicing Muslims) does require group practice and would require scheduled times during the workday.

And?

My earlier example of the 10 Commandments as one.


If there is an official government office in a town established by this commission for the furtherment of Islam which is one of the commission's stated purposes, that amounts to promotion of Islam.


Name an official government body, agency, or other government sanctioned and funded operation that promotes Christianity or Judaism. This commission is to be government sanctioned and funded in part or whole.

You just proved yourself wrong.

True. Islamic leaders and such can do the same thing, but NOT as part of the government. This commission is an official part of the government.

So are Christianity and Judaism.

Right back at ya!

Hey I didn't create the retarded drivels. The nobodies you took as truth did.

I wonder if you're a troll or worse still created this thread to make Democrats look bad.

If it's the latter, good job. Retards have taken your bait.

 

[AProudLefty]

We're talking about what you said.

That's not what you and I are talking about. We're talking about the fact that you would be throwing a fit if this were a Christian legislation proposal with the exact same wording save for one word.

Yes I would object to it. Why? Is that a problem?

 

[AProudLefty]

Judaism and xtianity beliefs have nothing in common, That's why the term Judo-christian is bullshit, Jews never say that

Well yeah.

 

[AProudLefty]

It would be equally egregious and an affront to US values if such a commission for Christians or Jews was proposed to exist.

Um those commissions already exist.

 

[AProudLefty]

Yes I would object to it. Why? Is that a problem?

To be clear, @countryboy, I would have objected had the bill actually promote as such.

 

[countryboy]

Yes I would object to it. Why? Is that a problem?

So you object to the legislation that is the subject of this thread?

 

[AProudLefty]

So you object to the legislation that is the subject of this thread?

I'm not being clear. I would have objected had the bill/legislation promoted Islam.

 

[IBDaMann]

Is Islam a religion?

Yes.

Is it illegal under the US constitution and law for the government to promote or advocate for a religion?

It is illegal for Congress, not for any State.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Does the creation of a commission dedicated to issues and advocacy of Islam constitute government promotion of one religion over others?

Moot. The States can do what they want with regard to religion within their own state lines. Each colony was founded on its own religious denomination, and the concern was simply to prevent the Federal government from imposing anything on any State.