Ok then you don't know.
Grok, do leftists want prisons abolished?
- Thread starter AProudLefty
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Yakuda
Verified User
I do and I also know you're a fucking imbecile
Not an answer. You're just itching to lie and say Communists.
Yakuda
Verified User
Tell us the difference between a communist and socilaist
In Communism, the state owns everything.
Yakuda
Verified User
I see and in socialism they just control everything
CasualLurker
Verified User
Privately run prisons should certainly be abolished.
State and federal run prisons, the former especially, need radical reform.
Execution method needs to be painless like euthanizing pets,
and euthanasia needs to be an option for everybody receiving lengthy sentences.
The justice system itself is based on the incorrect assumption that sane people commit heinous crimes.
It's based on insane religious superstitions. It punishes people for being sick, when it would be more humane to painlessly euthanize them.
None of this will happen because America is an extremely socially regressive nation,
and too many ignorant Americans like it that way.
I've already lived my life--it's almost over--but in retrospect, I do wish that I lived it somewhere else.
Theoretical communism. In real communism, there are oligarchs and wealthy people.
Of course not. I'm not one of you bloody tRumplings.
Then it's not really communism.
Yakuda
Verified User
So based on your deluded wet dreams. Keep to yourself freak boy
ModernDiogenes
Well-known member
And radical fascist entities don’t do precisely the same with their political dissidents?
These atrocities are not Right/Left things. They are authoritarian/totalitarian things.
It is only partisan thinking that assigns them to “Left” or “Right”.
Prisons are about three things:
1) The protection of society by the segmenting of those who’d do harm from others they’d do that harm to.
2) The opportunity to attempt rehabilitation of the violent offender.
3) A retribution/causality factor designed to prevent the criminal actions of others through deterrence and give a feeling of justice satisfied to the victims).
In that order.
Non-violent offenders prosecuted for drug crimes or other crimes of addiction should be sentenced to rehab facilities. They are less expensive than prisons, and they are not “crime colleges” graduating criminals out if non-violent adducts.
I’ve been in those front lines as an enforcer of the law as we fought “the war against drugs”. We lost. It’s time to try something more effective in that regard.
That does not mean prisons should go away. They are necessary. What they shouldn’t be is:
1) About anything but violent offenders. Non-addict non-violent offenders, perpetrators of fraud, etc., should be locked down too but in things like “boot camps”, not classic prisons.
2) Not run for profit by corporations. No one should be making money from the removal of someone else’s freedom.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
The radical fascist entities are Leftists too.
In my view of things political, the Left are the authoritarians while the far right are individualist anarchists. That is, they want no government whatsoever.
I'd switch 2 and 3. Rehabilitation only works if the person to be rehabilitated actually wants to be. The vast majority of people in prison are not going to be rehabilitated.
The majority of drug offenders in prison, not some county jail, are serious drug offenders. They aren't there for simple possession. They were major dealers, serious manufacturers, high volume mules, and other sorts that were what might be generalized as large-scale commercial business operators.
I think what would be more effective to legalize and stigmatize many now illegal drugs. Some, however, should remain illegal with very serious penalties for use, including first time offenders.
This would involve people wanting to manufacture and distribute drugs getting a 'Dealer's license.' Strict controls on these individuals would be in place and quality control would be roughly veterinary grade manufacturing standards to prevent making drugs with dangerous additives or residual dangers in them. They could only sell to licensed abusers.
Those wanting to buy and use these drugs would get a "Drug abuse license." This license would be public information insofar as identifying the person with one. That is, a prospective employer, etc., could look up someone and see if they have such a license. It would also list which drugs you can abuse.
Once you have a license for your chosen drugs you want to abuse, you go to a licensed dealer and can buy personal use quantities as you wish. Abuse away! Having such a license makes you 100% libel for all things like medical expenses related to use, and such. Possession of a license is also grounds for someone denying you a job, denying you a CDL or other such license, and grounds for termination from current employment if that is the employer's position.
Use outside the system results in draconian penalties on a first offense. You are looking at 10 to 20 years minimum for not being licensed and getting caught with or using drugs in the system or ones outside the system that remain illegal.
I disagree. Serious punishment is something those who perpetrate serious fraud or other financial crimes. That is, you are going to jail for a length of time where the money you got from your illegal operations results in you ending up making less than minimum wage by the time you get out. That is an object lesson here. You made $1 million scamming people? You get something like 20 years for it. Why? Because by the time you get out, you'd have made more working as counter help at Micky D's.
No 'country club' prison for you. Go to the real thing and deal with the real bad asses while figuring out the law fucked you out of the million you made.
Corporations only want to run prisons for the least dangerous easiest to deal with convicts. They want no part of dealing with the true assholes of the universe. There's no money to be made in that. As for someone "making money" from the removal of someone's freedom, I'd say that it is perfectly fair that victims of some criminal get exactly that. Make the criminal work in prison and get some small amount of pay half or more of which goes to their victims.
ModernDiogenes
Well-known member
Not by the I was taught civics. The “Red Fascist” doesn’t exist. Socialist/Communust and Fascist authoritarian/totalitarian governments both exist but their political ideology is opposing.
So no “Lefty Fascists”, sorry.
That’s simply another way of saying my extremists are the nice extremists. Theirs are the bad extremists.
Again sorry, but tgat a no go as well. Extremists are extremist and they are almost all bad.
Not always true. I arrested these folks as part of my living. I saw “nice” business folk with an ounce of Columbia’s finest marching power, with very expensive lawyers, get five years probation in “initial entry programs” who could have their records expunged on its completion if they didn’t get into any new trouble, and first time poor offenders with about the same amount of crack with public defenders cop plea deals for 3 years prison time on distribution charges.
hmmm..,
I didn’t mean Bernie Madoff’s, so I get it. I meant folks kiting small checks and such.
As to the rest, it’s a way to view things. I don’t;t think it will win humanitarian awards but it doesn’t have to. I’d just like something that works. Going in the way we are is bogus. There is no reason that in this society we should have the largest per capita prison population in the world. It’s evidence that we have something very wrong going on.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
The usual charts showing political position are simply wrong.
Take this one for example. It quantifies nothing. It uses ill-defined terms for its scales and places people based on subjective judgement. (note: I'm not the "me" on that chart)
On the other hand, what I use can quantify things and uses defined terms for the scales:
On the x axis you have a scale from anarchy (no government) as 0 to dictatorship (in this case absolute dictatorship as 10.
On the y axis you have an economic scale going from barter (individual transactions with no organized system) as 0 to a centrally planned economy as 10.
The z axis is social and goes from the individual being all-important as 0 to the group or society as all-important and the individual as irrelevant as 10.
Left and Right are opposites politically.
When you do that, there's not a nickel's worth of difference between a nazi regime and a communist regime.
Using a subjective rating system with no quantification and ill-defined terms does not generate any sort of arguable or reasoned response. It simply runs on the opinion of those making the claims.
ModernDiogenes
Well-known member
The usual charts showing political position are simply wrong.
Take this one for example. It quantifies nothing. It uses ill-defined terms for its scales and places people based on subjective judgement. (note: I'm not the "me" on that chart)
On the other hand, what I use can quantify things and uses defined terms for the scales:
View attachment 91426
On the x axis you have a scale from anarchy (no government) as 0 to dictatorship (in this case absolute dictatorship as 10.
On the y axis you have an economic scale going from barter (individual transactions with no organized system) as 0 to a centrally planned economy as 10.
The z axis is social and goes from the individual being all-important as 0 to the group or society as all-important and the individual as irrelevant as 10.
Left and Right are opposites politically.
When you do that, there's not a nickel's worth of difference between a nazi regime and a communist regime.
Using a subjective rating system with no quantification and ill-defined terms does not generate any sort of arguable or reasoned response. It simply runs on the opinion of those making the claims.
Google A.I.
In mainstream political science, the left cannot be fascist because fascism is defined as a far-right, ultranationalist ideology. However, critics and some scholars use terms like "left fascism" or "red fascism" to describe left-wing groups that use total control, violence, and the silencing of opponents.
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Call me main stream.
The 2 largest for-profit prison companies clear 4 billion a year in profits. That was before ICE. Their contracts get guarantee 80 percent bed use. They have huge lobbying power. https://sites.tufts.edu/prisondivestment/prison-contracts/ They are a huge part of the reason that we have the largest prison population in the world.
Communism, and socialism do not exist. But we still label them as such. We are fighting labels.