I would add to that, that the very education many of the top people in these Islamic terrorist organizations got was from Western universities where they studied for years under radical Leftist professors and academics while surrounded by a heavily radical Leftist student body that radicalized them.
grok.com
In other words, I am generally correct and Grok is just making trivial objections (aka hair splitting, etc.).Fact check: "Many of the top people in Islamic terrorist organizations got their education from Western universities where they studied for years under radical Leftist professors and academics while surrounded by a heavily radical Leftist student body that radicalized them."
Partially true on education, but largely false or unsupported on the claimed mechanism of radicalization by radical Leftist professors and student bodies.
Many senior figures and operatives in groups like al-Qaeda and related networks had university educations, frequently in technical or professional fields, and a notable minority studied in the West. This is well-documented and contradicts the older stereotype of terrorists as mostly uneducated madrasa products. However, the specific claim that they were radicalized by radical Leftist professors/academics and a heavily radical Leftist student environment does not hold up as a general pattern.
Education backgrounds (supported)
- Osama bin Laden: Studied business administration/economics (and reportedly civil engineering elements) at King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Influenced there by Islamist thinkers linked to the Muslim Brotherhood (including Muhammad Qutb, brother of Sayyid Qutb). Not a Western university.
- Ayman al-Zawahiri: Medical degree (surgery) from Cairo University; later master's. From a prominent Egyptian family; radicalized early via Islamist ideology (Qutb’s writings) and Egyptian Islamic Jihad circles while studying and practicing medicine in Egypt. Not Western-educated.
- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (9/11 operational planner): Mechanical engineering degree from North Carolina A&T State University (U.S.).
- Mohamed Atta (lead 9/11 hijacker): Architecture from Cairo University; urban planning studies at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg (Germany). The Hamburg cell formed while several studied there.
- Other examples: Ramzi Yousef (1993 WTC) studied engineering in the UK/Wales area; several British plotters (e.g., elements of the 7/7 London bombings, liquid bomb plot, Glasgow airport attempt) attended UK universities; Anwar al-Awlaki studied in the U.S. and was pursuing a PhD at George Washington University at one point; “Jihadi John” (Mohammed Emwazi) studied computer programming at the University of Westminster.
Studies (e.g., Gambetta & Hertog’s work on “Engineers of Jihad,” Bergen analyses of major plots) consistently find that among known Islamist militants with higher education, engineering and other technical degrees are heavily overrepresented relative to population baselines. University attendance rates among militants from Muslim-majority countries are often higher than national averages. Western-educated cases exist and are overrepresented in some high-profile plots, but they are not the majority of “top people” across organizations.
The radicalization mechanism (not supported as claimed)
The claim that these individuals were radicalized while studying for years under radical Leftist professors and surrounded by a heavily radical Leftist student body lacks evidence as a primary or common pathway.
- Radicalization for the core historical leaders (bin Laden, Zawahiri, early Egyptian Islamic Jihad figures) occurred primarily through Islamist ideologues (Sayyid Qutb and followers, Muslim Brotherhood networks, Afghan jihad experiences against the Soviets), personal/political grievances, and underground cells—before or outside any Western university setting.
- For those who attended Western universities, documented radicalization more often involved campus Islamic societies, radical Islamist speakers (e.g., al-Muhajiroun figures in the UK), personal networks, foreign conflicts (Bosnia, Afghanistan, etc.), or online/offline Islamist propaganda—not Leftist faculty or mainstream progressive student culture. Examples include Omar Saeed Sheikh at LSE and various UK cases where Islamic societies hosted hardline preachers.
- There is no systematic evidence that Western leftist academia systematically produced these jihadist leaders. Some Western university environments have had issues with tolerance of Islamist extremism or antisemitism in certain student groups, and alienation/identity issues can play a role for diaspora students, but the ideology adopted is Islamist/Salafi-jihadist, not leftist. The technical skew (engineers, etc.) is better explained by other factors in the literature (cognitive styles, status frustration, recruitment patterns) than by Leftist professors.
In short: Higher education—including some Western technical degrees—is common among certain jihadist elites and plotters, and universities (especially in the West for some operatives) have sometimes served as recruitment or networking environments. The specific causal story blaming “radical Leftist professors and academics” and a radical Left student body as the radicalizing force is not substantiated by the biographical and research record. Radicalization tracks far more closely with Islamist ideological networks and experiences.
Grok
Grok is an AI assistant built by SpaceXAI. Chat, create images, write code, and get real-time answers from the web and X.
grok.com
They were radicalized at home. Our colleges do not train terrorists. You went to American Universities; when will you attack?Fact check: "Many of the top people in Islamic terrorist organizations got their education from Western universities where they studied for years under radical Leftist professors and academics while surrounded by a heavily radical Leftist student body that radicalized them."
Partially true on education, but largely false or unsupported on the claimed mechanism of radicalization by radical Leftist professors and student bodies.
Many senior figures and operatives in groups like al-Qaeda and related networks had university educations, frequently in technical or professional fields, and a notable minority studied in the West. This is well-documented and contradicts the older stereotype of terrorists as mostly uneducated madrasa products. However, the specific claim that they were radicalized by radical Leftist professors/academics and a heavily radical Leftist student environment does not hold up as a general pattern.
Education backgrounds (supported)
- Osama bin Laden: Studied business administration/economics (and reportedly civil engineering elements) at King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Influenced there by Islamist thinkers linked to the Muslim Brotherhood (including Muhammad Qutb, brother of Sayyid Qutb). Not a Western university.
- Ayman al-Zawahiri: Medical degree (surgery) from Cairo University; later master's. From a prominent Egyptian family; radicalized early via Islamist ideology (Qutb’s writings) and Egyptian Islamic Jihad circles while studying and practicing medicine in Egypt. Not Western-educated.
- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (9/11 operational planner): Mechanical engineering degree from North Carolina A&T State University (U.S.).
- Mohamed Atta (lead 9/11 hijacker): Architecture from Cairo University; urban planning studies at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg (Germany). The Hamburg cell formed while several studied there.
- Other examples: Ramzi Yousef (1993 WTC) studied engineering in the UK/Wales area; several British plotters (e.g., elements of the 7/7 London bombings, liquid bomb plot, Glasgow airport attempt) attended UK universities; Anwar al-Awlaki studied in the U.S. and was pursuing a PhD at George Washington University at one point; “Jihadi John” (Mohammed Emwazi) studied computer programming at the University of Westminster.
Studies (e.g., Gambetta & Hertog’s work on “Engineers of Jihad,” Bergen analyses of major plots) consistently find that among known Islamist militants with higher education, engineering and other technical degrees are heavily overrepresented relative to population baselines. University attendance rates among militants from Muslim-majority countries are often higher than national averages. Western-educated cases exist and are overrepresented in some high-profile plots, but they are not the majority of “top people” across organizations.
The radicalization mechanism (not supported as claimed)
The claim that these individuals were radicalized while studying for years under radical Leftist professors and surrounded by a heavily radical Leftist student body lacks evidence as a primary or common pathway.
- Radicalization for the core historical leaders (bin Laden, Zawahiri, early Egyptian Islamic Jihad figures) occurred primarily through Islamist ideologues (Sayyid Qutb and followers, Muslim Brotherhood networks, Afghan jihad experiences against the Soviets), personal/political grievances, and underground cells—before or outside any Western university setting.
- For those who attended Western universities, documented radicalization more often involved campus Islamic societies, radical Islamist speakers (e.g., al-Muhajiroun figures in the UK), personal networks, foreign conflicts (Bosnia, Afghanistan, etc.), or online/offline Islamist propaganda—not Leftist faculty or mainstream progressive student culture. Examples include Omar Saeed Sheikh at LSE and various UK cases where Islamic societies hosted hardline preachers.
- There is no systematic evidence that Western leftist academia systematically produced these jihadist leaders. Some Western university environments have had issues with tolerance of Islamist extremism or antisemitism in certain student groups, and alienation/identity issues can play a role for diaspora students, but the ideology adopted is Islamist/Salafi-jihadist, not leftist. The technical skew (engineers, etc.) is better explained by other factors in the literature (cognitive styles, status frustration, recruitment patterns) than by Leftist professors.
In short: Higher education—including some Western technical degrees—is common among certain jihadist elites and plotters, and universities (especially in the West for some operatives) have sometimes served as recruitment or networking environments. The specific causal story blaming “radical Leftist professors and academics” and a radical Left student body as the radicalizing force is not substantiated by the biographical and research record. Radicalization tracks far more closely with Islamist ideological networks and experiences.
Grok
Grok is an AI assistant built by SpaceXAI. Chat, create images, write code, and get real-time answers from the web and X.
nypost.com
Did you go to college? I certainly was not told those lies. There was about zero discussion of Muslim religion and philosophy. We did talk about the explosion of knowledge in the Middle East while Europe was under religious control. When religion has power, the people lose science, philosophy, and real education. The church teaches what to think, not how.
I went before Islamic terrorism became the worldwide threat it is today. However, you are correct. Islam went 'dark' intellectually in the aftermath of the Mongol invasion of the Middle East in the 12th and 13th centuries. It never recovered.
Yup.
