𝗧𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲'𝘀 𝗻𝗼 𝗼𝗳𝗳 𝘀𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗰𝗵 𝗼𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗔𝗚𝗔 𝗕𝗦 𝗺𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗲...

[T. A. Gardner]

Poor little Twinkie Ass Gardner.

Tries to make subject changing the issue after he changed the subject first, even though everyone knows that in these JPP threads, straying away from the original topic is a common occurrence and a normal state of affairs

No thread around here ever goes from start to finish while sticking to the original topic. You're obviously hiding behind that because you're too gutless to address the point I made about your hypocrisy on the issue of the unintended consequences of government policy. Something that is 100% germane to the subject YOU brought up.

The subject of this (my) thread, is... the big, fat (typical) right-wing lie told by the creator of the meme I used in the OP.

But rather than address that subject, which was the blatant and typical rightwing dishonesty displayed in the aforementioned meme via the use of such a grossly inflated figure, you instead opted to obfuscate and change the subject to "anything over zero is too much".

Then, after I was gracious enough to let you get away with it, you have the unmitigated gall to accuse me of changing the subject after I applied your own logic right back on you.

The truly amusing part is how your angry and indignant reaction to it, is a clear indication of how badly I struck a nerve. I obviously reminded you of something about yourself that you hate to think about... which is what a hypocrite and a chickenshit you are.

But make no mistake, I do love kicking your ass around here.

So, your response is more ad hominem coupled with what I call "Illegal rambling." At this point, WTF are you even talking about?

 

[Nomad]

So, your response is more ad hominem coupled with what I call "Illegal rambling." At this point, WTF are you even talking about?

Your hypocrisy.

As I have been.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I never claimed 13,000 people have been killed by illegals. I claimed the number of Americans killed by foreign, illegal aliens is greater than zero and that whatever that number is, it is 100% higher than it should be. I also don't care what those people were killed with, or the method used. That is irrelevant to my argument.

Your attempt to redirect this discussion to one of gun control is nothing by a red herring coupled to a non sequitur and tu quoque fallacy.

Any person murdered I’d 1person more than ought to be murdered.

The truth of it is what percentage of those undocumented commit violent crimes as opposed to tgat of any other group. That’s the apples to apples argument.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Any person murdered I’d 1person more than ought to be murdered.

The truth of it is what percentage of those undocumented commit violent crimes as opposed to tgat of any other group. That’s the apples to apples argument.

Well, to answer that, we'd need to know exactly how many are actually in the country and that is open to a lot of speculation on its own. One indicator is that illegals go to prison--at least where such records are kept--at roughly triple the rate of legal citizens.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Yes, it is at least 1 and likely more than 100. All of that is reasonable while all you are doing is trying to turn this into an argumentum ad infinitum. But, to shut you up:

List of Americans killed by illegal immigrants – Americans Killed by illegal immigrants

americanskilledbyillegals.org

White House Posts List of Americans Killed by Illegal Immigrants With Caption 'Our Why'

The White House video lists Americans killed in crimes involving people described as illegal immigrants. Cases range from fatal stabbings to drunk driving and hit-and-run crashes.

www.ibtimes.co.uk

DHS Honors Victims of Illegal Alien Crime | Homeland Security

DHS honors the strength and resilience of victims affected by crimes committed by illegal aliens – families shattered by murder, children subjected to sexual abuse and exploitation, women brutalized, and law enforcement officers targeted simply for doing their jobs.

www.dhs.gov

Criminal Alien Statistics

U.S. Customs and Border Protection provides information on border security, trade, travel, customs regulations, trusted traveler programs and enforcement news to the public.

www.cbp.gov

Laken Riley murder: Five other times illegal immigrants were charged with murder

The brutal murder of Georgia nursing student Laken Riley is the latest in a string of violent crimes allegedly committed by immigrants who were released

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Let the equivocating begin!

Uhhh...your response to Nomad and Owl Woman seems to indicate that their sources are bullshit...and yet you expect me to accept material on this issue that comes from the White House, dhs, cbp.gov and the fucking washington examiner?

C'mon, TA. Get your shit together.

Let's have at least one report from something other than the far right-wing shills.

As I said, your guess is not unreasonable. I suppose there actually has been a killing or several by illegals. But produce something other than stuff generated by American Goebbels.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Well, to answer that, we'd need to know exactly how many are actually in the country and that is open to a lot of speculation on its own. One indicator is that illegals go to prison--at least where such records are kept--at roughly triple the rate of legal citizens.

Can you document that without going to the far-right bullshit sources you normally use, TA?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Well, to answer that, we'd need to know exactly how many are actually in the country and that is open to a lot of speculation on its own. One indicator is that illegals go to prison--at least where such records are kept--at roughly triple the rate of legal citizens.

The Cato Institute, a Conservative think tank, disagrees. More importantly so does the PNAS: (Emphasis added)

Google A.I.:

Precise nationwide percentages tracking the exact share of undocumented immigrants in all U.S. state and local prisons specifically for violent crimes are not comprehensively published in a single government index. However, research from organizations like the Cato Institute indicates that undocumented immigrants have lower overall incarceration rates than native-born Americans, and studies from sources like the PNAS show native-born citizens are over two times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The Cato Institute, a Conservative think tank, disagrees. More importantly so does the PNAS: (Emphasis added)

Google A.I.:

Precise nationwide percentages tracking the exact share of undocumented immigrants in all U.S. state and local prisons specifically for violent crimes are not comprehensively published in a single government index. However, research from organizations like the Cato Institute indicates that undocumented immigrants have lower overall incarceration rates than native-born Americans, and studies from sources like the PNAS show native-born citizens are over two times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes.

One place to look is:

BOP: Population Statistics

www.bop.gov

BOP Statistics: Inmate Citizenship

www.bop.gov

Up to Autopen's administration, the total number of illegals was generally held to be between 11 and 15 million. That's between 3 and 5% of the population of the US. As you can see from the statistics above 16% of the federal prison population are foreign nationals and almost totally here illegally. At the high end of illegals in the US, that makes them roughly 3 times their number in the general population. At worst, it's 5 times.

That holds true at the state level too. Cato is simply wrong because they conflate legal and illegal status in their studies as do most groups.

 

[AMERICA FIRST]

Why do trumpers have to CONSTANTLY LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING???

There is no such thing as a "Trumper".

There are people who understood what Obama and Biden had done and said enough of that already.

Trump was the only alternative so there you have it. You made your bed now lie in it.

There is however such a thing as a mentally deficient leftist fool. You are among many of them here.

 

[Nomad]

There is no such thing as a "Trumper".

There are people who understood what Obama and Biden had done and said enough of that already.

Trump was the only alternative so there you have it. You made your bed now lie in it.

There is however such a thing as a mentally deficient leftist fool. You are among many of them here.

If I called you a half-wit I'd be overrating your wit by 100%.

Your nonsense about trump being the only alternative is indicative of how far over the edge of extremist stupidity you and your kind are.

There were plenty of sane, anti-woke, fiscally conservative Republican candidates you assholes could have chosen in the 2016 primaries. But you gullible dumbass fuckheads chose the most unqualified, extremist lunatic who ever ran for office because you hate your country and you hate those who don't share your low IQ opinions so vehemently, you'd burn it all down just to prove it.

The Orange Oaf has no idea what's going on around him.

 

[LurchAddams]

Your hypocrisy.

As I have been.

Yep, terry is lockstep with the trumptards - Terry implements "whataboutism" all the time - but when we try to demonstrate his hypocrisy - somehow, we're not allowed.

Trumpism: "rules for thee but not for me". <-- right Terry?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

One place to look is:

BOP: Population Statistics

www.bop.gov

BOP Statistics: Inmate Citizenship

www.bop.gov

Up to Autopen's administration, the total number of illegals was generally held to be between 11 and 15 million. That's between 3 and 5% of the population of the US. As you can see from the statistics above 16% of the federal prison population are foreign nationals and almost totally here illegally. At the high end of illegals in the US, that makes them roughly 3 times their number in the general population. At worst, it's 5 times.

That holds true at the state level too. Cato is simply wrong because they conflate legal and illegal status in their studies as do most groups.

The current rate of those in federal custody is of course higher because we just locked up about 400,000 of the undocumented for being undocumented.

That is why I used the figures for 2024, before all this started.

My figures hold and make far more sense than trying to use figures from today. plus the source material is CATO. I wouldn't imagine you'd have trouble with figures from a Right Wing think tank.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The current rate of those in federal custody is of course higher because we just locked up about 400,000 of the undocumented for being undocumented.

That is why I used the figures for 2024, before all this started.

My figures hold and make far more sense than trying to use figures from today. plus the source material is CATO. I wouldn't imagine you'd have trouble with figures from a Right Wing think tank.

No, it's been that way for decades. Illegals in Arizona's, Texas', and the federal prison system have been 3 to 5 times their numbers in the general population since the 1990's. Illegals go to jail and prison at far higher rates than citizens and legal immigrants.

Illegal Aliens Incarcerated As Much As Five Times Rate of Legal Residents, Says New FAIR Study | FAIRUS.org

(February 5, 2019, Washington, D.C.) — Illegal aliens are incarcerated as much as five times the rate of legal residents – and on average three times the rate of legal residents – in states where they are most heavily concentrated, according to a new study published by the Federation for...

www.fairus.org

A major reason for this is that the illegal population is heavily skewed towards younger men than the general population.

III. Demographic and Family Characteristics

Gender and Age There were 6.3 million men, 4.1 million women and 1.5 million children under age 18 living in the United States as unauthorized immigrants in March 2008. The…

www.pewresearch.org

That demographic is more likely to commit crimes and would do so out of proportion to the general population.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

No, it's been that way for decades. Illegals in Arizona's, Texas', and the federal prison system have been 3 to 5 times their numbers in the general population since the 1990's. Illegals go to jail and prison at far higher rates than citizens and legal immigrants.

So Cato and the PSAN are lying?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So Cato and the PSAN are lying?

No, just wrong.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

No, just wrong.

Well my observation from the position of 40+ years of investigating crime, 25 of them in an urban area that was mostly Hispanic, tells me differently so...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Well my observation from the position of 40+ years of investigating crime, 25 of them in an urban area that was mostly Hispanic, tells me differently so...

Well, my lifetime of experience, much of it in Arizona, says illegals commit far more crimes than citizens and legal residents, so...

 

[Ross Dolan]

If I called you a half-wit I'd be overrating your wit by 100%.

Your nonsense about trump being the only alternative is indicative of how far over the edge of extremist stupidity you and your kind are.

There were plenty of sane, anti-woke, fiscally conservative Republican candidates you assholes could have chosen in the 2016 primaries. But you gullible dumbass fuckheads chose the most unqualified, extremist lunatic who ever ran for office because you hate your country and you hate those who don't share your low IQ opinions so vehemently, you'd burn it all down just to prove it.

The Orange Oaf has no idea what's going on around him.

YOU MADE THIS COMMENT IN REPLY TO "AMERICA FIRST."

WELL SAID, Nomad.

It applies to most, if not all, of these fucking MAGA morons.

 

[Nomad]

Well, my lifetime of experience, much of it in Arizona, says illegals commit far more crimes than citizens and legal residents, so...

YAFOS.

 

[Taichiliberal]

I care that someone is illegally in the country. "Undocumented" is just a euphemism for "illegal" or "criminal," and you don't care. I suppose you are one of those that thinks we should end use of police and prisons too.

If you are so unafraid, if "someone crossed an imaginary line" would you feel the same way if some thug broke into your home and was no squatting in your house? After all, they only crossed an "imaginary line." If you were to ask them to leave, they just tell you, "Property lines are imaginary so what difference does the paperwork make?"

Your hypotheticals are hysterical, given that YOU have no problem with your Cheeto Jeezus pardoning/aiding and abetting convicted sex offenders, pedophiles, home invasers and murders.