A Defense of a Liberal Arts Education

I don't feel attacked at all, but thanks for the preference.

I am not educated in mathematics or engineering, so I do not speak from experience but anyone with a Masters Degree Id consider educated. Liberal Arts is what I know. My grandfather was a civil engineer, did not make any real money, but he had family money. He was a well educated man. Somewhere he got the classics. I agree happyness is not predicated upon a liberal arts education, but I am very thankful for mine.

My grandfather did not get a High School Diploma because he left early for basic training to fight in the Army. The war ended before he completed the training and was accepted to Auburn without a High School Diploma due to the circumstances. After four years, they called him in and acknowledged he had passed the required courses, bu they were concerned that he did not know how to spell, they were considering holding back his degree. I do not know if this was his BA or his Masters, but he objected that they did not have a spelling class and despite not being able to spell he passed the required classes, so they gave him the degree.

He was the head of the Highway Department for the State of Alabama for over 20 years. Built many bridges that are still standing now, including the historically known Edmund Pettus Bridge. He was successful in his career, but that was his career, not who he was, it did not define him. In the end he spent more than he made.

Sorry, I am rambling, but my point is that I believe some Liberal Arts are helpful for success in our culture and any knowledge helps.
That's a great story about your grandfather, that's great history.

Before you posted that I was going to write about my immediate family. My father had a PhD. He started undergrad as a chemistry major and ultimately switched to economics. His PhD was in Real Estate Finance and Economics. He ultimately earned tenure as a Professor.

My mom has her MBA. My sister is an interior designer and did post graduate studies in design and there's lowly me with a bachelors from 'SC.

So on the surface it looks like our family values education but based on the previous definition none of us are really 'educated'. But after this post (I'm responding to), I won't say that.
 
That's a great story about your grandfather, that's great history.

Before you posted that I was going to write about my immediate family. My father had a PhD. He started undergrad as a chemistry major and ultimately switched to economics. His PhD was in Real Estate Finance and Economics. He ultimately earned tenure as a Professor.

My mom has her MBA. My sister is an interior designer and did post graduate studies in design and there's lowly me with a bachelors from 'SC.

So on the surface it looks like our family values education but based on the previous definition none of us are really 'educated'. But after this post (I'm responding to), I won't say that.
What previous definition? You seem to me to be very educated.
 
What previous definition? You seem to me to be very educated.
I was referring to when you said being an expert in the engineering of bridges does not make someone an “educated” person. I took that to mean you were using educated in the broader liberal arts sense you’ve been describing.

But in your last post you changed that a little, so that's why I was saying I wouldn't say that now (if that makes sense). And I'm not trying to belabor the point or create some tangent discussion about it, but was just stating it.
 
I was referring to when you said being an expert in the engineering of bridges does not make someone an “educated” person. I took that to mean you were using educated in the broader liberal arts sense you’ve been describing.

But in your last post you changed that a little, so that's why I was saying I wouldn't say that now (if that makes sense). And I'm not trying to belabor the point or create some tangent discussion about it, but was just stating it.
Its true that there are people who are experts in engineering of bridges who are not what I call educated 'in general'. Knowing one thing well does not equate to being what I am referring to as educated, but I would assume that almost anyone who is an expert in engineering of bridges is likely 'educated' in a general sense.

I cant spell so plenty of people assume I am not educated, but I consider myself broadly educated. I am not educated if we are discussing math, but I have a pretty decent concept of Theoretical Physics. One does not prevent the other.

I have a brain that is what most people call divergent, there are some very 'simple' things I just can't do, but I easily grasp concepts, braud ideas of systems and structures.

I put 'divergent' in quotes, because I think peoples intelligence is all 'divergent', some just more obviously so than others.
 
Most because Hume is a textbook example of what happens when people spend too much time in an education system controlled by leftists. They're weak minded, they lack the ability to articulate a rational argument, they onl repeat what they've been "taught" and have no idea what to do when anyone disagrees with them.
There appears to be a much broader problem with Hume than that.
 
I cant spell so plenty of people assume I am not educated, but I consider myself broadly educated.

Brad, I have observed that you are lazy and don't care what your lack of attention says about you. I know where you went to school, but conflating having attended school with being educated is a mistake.

Graduating from high school, college, and law school means someone completed the formal requirements of those programs and received the corresponding credentials.

That is evidence of schooling, not proof of being educated.

Education is the durable capacity to learn, reason, distinguish signal from noise, integrate knowledge across domains, and revise beliefs when evidence requires it.

Degrees record that a person sat through a curriculum and satisfied its gatekeepers at a particular time. They do not guarantee any of those capacities.

  • High school completion is supposed to show basic literacy, numeracy, and persistence through a standardized program. We could both cite examples where that has not proven to be the case, can't we?
  • A bachelor’s degree shows the person finished a set of courses, usually with some specialization. That's all it demonstrates.
  • A law degree shows they were taught about a specific professional method: reading cases, applying rules to facts, writing in a prescribed style, and arguing within an existing legal framework.
None of that automatically produces breadth, judgment, historical perspective, or intellectual honesty. A person can graduate all three while remaining narrowly trained, ideologically captured, or unable to think.

Modern societies treat credentials as a convenient proxy because they are easy to count. They are also easy to fake.

Educational Institutions have incentives to expand access and inflate grades.

Employers and the public have incentives to treat the degree as a filter rather than inspect the actual mind.

The result is credentialism: the belief that the certificate is education.

That belief fails in both directions.

Plenty of people are better read, more rigorous, and more useful than some JDs. Plenty of people with all three degrees cannot explain the assumptions behind their own field, cannot evaluate a statistical claim, and have never seriously engaged ideas that contradict their biases.

Law school is a particularly clear example. It does not reliably produce people who understand logic, economics, history, science, or the limits of law itself.

The same pattern appears in other professional schools.

Schooling can be part of education when the institution is rigorous and the student is curious.

It is not the same thing as being eduated. The test is what the person can do, and how they think, years after the last exam.
 
Brad, I have observed that you are lazy and don't care what your lack of attention says about you. I know where you went to school, but conflating having attended school with being educated is a mistake.

Graduating from high school, college, and law school means someone completed the formal requirements of those programs and received the corresponding credentials.

That is evidence of schooling, not proof of being educated.

Education is the durable capacity to learn, reason, distinguish signal from noise, integrate knowledge across domains, and revise beliefs when evidence requires it.

Degrees record that a person sat through a curriculum and satisfied its gatekeepers at a particular time. They do not guarantee any of those capacities.

  • High school completion is supposed to show basic literacy, numeracy, and persistence through a standardized program. We could both cite examples where that has not proven to be the case, can't we?
  • A bachelor’s degree shows the person finished a set of courses, usually with some specialization. That's all it demonstrates.
  • A law degree shows they were taught about a specific professional method: reading cases, applying rules to facts, writing in a prescribed style, and arguing within an existing legal framework.
None of that automatically produces breadth, judgment, historical perspective, or intellectual honesty. A person can graduate all three while remaining narrowly trained, ideologically captured, or unable to think.

Modern societies treat credentials as a convenient proxy because they are easy to count. They are also easy to fake.

Educational Institutions have incentives to expand access and inflate grades.

Employers and the public have incentives to treat the degree as a filter rather than inspect the actual mind.

The result is credentialism: the belief that the certificate is education.

That belief fails in both directions.

Plenty of people are better read, more rigorous, and more useful than some JDs. Plenty of people with all three degrees cannot explain the assumptions behind their own field, cannot evaluate a statistical claim, and have never seriously engaged ideas that contradict their biases.

Law school is a particularly clear example. It does not reliably produce people who understand logic, economics, history, science, or the limits of law itself.

The same pattern appears in other professional schools.

Schooling can be part of education when the institution is rigorous and the student is curious.

It is not the same thing as being eduated. The test is what the person can do, and how they think, years after the last exam.
I agree
 
Its true that there are people who are experts in engineering of bridges who are not what I call educated 'in general'. Knowing one thing well does not equate to being what I am referring to as educated, but I would assume that almost anyone who is an expert in engineering of bridges is likely 'educated' in a general sense.
Crap degrees is not an education, Pretender.
I cant spell so plenty of people assume I am not educated,
Illiteracy. Missing apostrophe.

but I consider myself broadly educated.
You are illiterate. Illiteracy is not educated.
I am not educated if we are discussing math,
Obviously.
but I have a pretty decent concept of Theoretical Physics.
You have already denied several theories of science and physics.
One does not prevent the other.
Oddly enough, it does.
I have a brain that is what most people call divergent, there are some very 'simple' things I just can't do, but I easily grasp concepts, braud ideas of systems and structures.
Buzzword fallacies.
You are illiterate.
I put 'divergent' in quotes, because I think peoples intelligence is all 'divergent', some just more obviously so than others.
Buzzword fallacy. Obviously you have no idea what 'divergent' means either.
 
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