Oklahoma Bible mandate challenged in Court

[murph63]

@Cypress: you are propagating one of the worst aspects of Christian thought leaders like Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Bakker, et al. You are dishonest and play coy with your faith. Most of them were fake Christians. You are an interesting variant: a Christian who so hates the fact it makes you look "less smart" so you DENY being a Christian and then go on to DEFEND CHRISTIANITY HARD.

You are transparent and....well, for lack of a better word: an immoral person. You have NO ETHICS. You just namedrop ethics, but like all the books on your bookshelf you didn't learn anything from looking at the words.

 

[Cypress]

I'm sick to death of you thumpers always hating on atheism!

So you want the Crusades and the Inquisition taught about religion, but you want Soviet State atheism swept under the rug and never mentioned by a teacher.

You're as fanatical as any Bible thumper, unwilling to brook anything negative about the history of your belief system.

State-sponsored Atheism as a policy has been widely practiced in human history from the French Revolution to the Soviet Union, to the People's Republic of China. State Atheism as a policy has affected billions of people over the last two centuries.

If we're going to teach the more positive or benign history of atheism and atheistic thought, for example Nietchze and Freud, why do you want to sweep the less benign historical facts under the rug?

 

[Cypress]

@Cypress: You are transparent and....well, for lack of a better word: an immoral person! You have NO ETHICS!

Massively triggered ​

 

[Cypress]

Leave everything about Religion out of public school!

I don't believe in censorship. Nothing is served to the serious student by cynically sweeping historical facts under the rug.

The religious dimensions of the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition should be taught to high school and college students, along side the Christian contributions to education, literacy, hospitals, and the expansion of science and art.

I also don't believe the history of atheism should be decorated and adorned to present a spruced-up idealized version of itself. The positive secular qualities of the French Revolution should be discussed alongside the policies of State-sponsored Atheism in the Soviet Union and People's Republic of China.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

All of @Into the Night's posts are scrolled by

He has posts?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Burns your ignorant ass that Jews have a homeland

MAGATs would like to make America into the Xtians' homeland. I just asked my AI what t he outcome of this ridiculous OK plot was to insert the Xtian religion into public schools. It did not go well for them. lol

"There's another important wrinkle. Walters' administration also adopted 2025 social-studies standards containing explicit biblical material—for example, first graders would have been asked to identify how David and Goliath and Moses and the Ten Commandments influenced colonial America and the Founders. In November 2025, however, the Oklahoma Supreme Court struck down those standards because the process used to adopt them violated the state's Open Meeting Act. The older 2019 standards remain in effect until new standards are properly adopted.


"So, as of September 2026: Oklahoma public schools are not under a statewide mandate to use the Bible as a teaching aid. Individual teachers can still discuss or use biblical texts for legitimate secular purposes—history, literature, art, comparative religion, etc.—just as public schools elsewhere can. That's quite different from devotional Bible teaching or promoting Christianity."

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

I don't believe in censorship. Nothing is served to the serious student by cynically sweeping historical facts under the rug.

The religious dimensions of the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition should be taught to high school and college students, along side the Christian contributions to education, literacy, hospitals, and the expansion of science and art.

I also don't believe the history of atheism should be decorated and adorned to present a spruced-up idealized version of itself. The positive secular qualities of the French Revolution should be discussed alongside the policies of State-sponsored Atheism in the Soviet Union and People's Republic of China.

Religion has no business in public schools! Especially in the age of Christian Nationalism! If you let it in at all,how do you draw a line?Let only Christianity in? Let Muslims bring pray rugs facing Mecca?
Jews slaughtering Lambs and putting blood over the door?
Founding fathers were right about separation of church and state!

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I don't believe in censorship. Nothing is served to the serious student by cynically sweeping historical facts under the rug.

The religious dimensions of the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition should be taught to high school and college students, along side the Christian contributions to education, literacy, hospitals, and the expansion of science and art.

I also don't believe the history of atheism should be decorated and adorned to present a spruced-up idealized version of itself. The positive secular qualities of the French Revolution should be discussed alongside the policies of State-sponsored Atheism in the Soviet Union and People's Republic of China.

Hmm, not in public schools unless it's in an honors/AP h.s. course about comparative religion and how the various faiths have affected history. I'm not sure why atheism should even be considered other than as a sidebar part of the history of Communism, or an explanation of why those regimes banned the practice of religion as a state policy.

 

[Cypress]

If you let it in at all,how do you draw a line?

You don't teach doctrine, practice, and sacrament. You teach at the level of cultural history.

Let only Christianity in?

No, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism can be discussed at the level of history and culture

 

[Cypress]

Hmm, not in public schools unless it's in an honors/AP h.s. course about comparative religion and how the various faiths have affected history. I'm not sure why atheism should even be considered other than as a sidebar part of the history of Communism, or an explanation of why those regimes banned the practice of religion as a state policy.

Yes, I wrote high school and college. I'm not into teaching the Spanish Inquisition or the rise of Christian universities to second graders. You also can't adequately teach art history of the Middle Ages and Renaissance if students are ignorant of Christianity.

I brought up the history of atheism because Perry was complaining that any facet of religious history would be taught in school, so I said fine let's include the history of atheism too.

 

[Cypress]

Leave everything about Religion out of public school!

My super-liberal public university offers classes on the history of Christianity, and I oppose any attempts to censor the school and take away that educational opportunity for students who desire it.

I am certain that my super-liberal public university also offers courses on Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism and I consider any effort to censor those classes to be authoritarian. I'd take a class on Judaism if I had the time and opportunity.

 

[murph63]

So you want the Crusades and the Inquisition taught about religion, but you want Soviet State atheism swept under the rug and never mentioned by a teacher.

I'm more than willing to place blame where it lies. I'd tote up the body count from those attrocities committed explicitly in the name of God vs those done explicitly in the name of atheism.

Sure your great grandpa is in the latter (if I believe you), but that's one. Versus countless MILLIONS killed in the name of religion.

1 Sam 15:3 is all you need to see.

 

[murph63]

Massively triggered ​

Hell yes. I find your bizarre actions in regards to your clear obvious religious faith (you can lie to others as you like, just not to me) to be offensive.

I have many Christian friends and NONE of them are as awful a human being as you appear to be on here.

And that's how I know you have no ethics or morality. You play games to boost your ego.

I'm pissed off. I hate scum like you.

 

[murph63]

Yes, I wrote high school and college. I'm not into teaching the Spanish Inquisition or the rise of Christian universities to second graders. You also can't adequately teach art history of the Middle Ages and Renaissance if students are ignorant of Christianity.

I brought up the history of atheism because Perry was complaining that any facet of religious history would be taught in school, so I said fine let's include the history of atheism too.

So long as it is taught honestly. For instance all those Christian beliefs you think underlie all the greatness of our society? Yeah, that's built on a PILE OF BODIES so deep it would cause a vulture to retch.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Yes, I wrote high school and college. I'm not into teaching the Spanish Inquisition or the rise of Christian universities to second graders. You also can't adequately teach art history of the Middle Ages and Renaissance if students are ignorant of Christianity.

I brought up the history of atheism because Perry was complaining that any facet of religious history would be taught in school, so I said fine let's include the history of atheism too.

OIC. Mentioning atheism as a state policy in communist (or other) regimes in history class sounds fair enough; it is not teaching that we should be atheists (Or not).

It's funny to me that both religion and sex are part of the human experience, yet the same ppl who rebel against sex ed in public school don't blink about efforts to teach Xtian beliefs in the same venue.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

So long as it is taught honestly. For instance all those Christian beliefs you think underlie all the greatness of our society? Yeah, that's built on a PILE OF BODIES so deep it would cause a vulture to retch.

I agree to some extent, but given the MAGAT/Trumpism push to rewrite American history, I don't see that ever happening. Remember, the slaves were brought here out of a hellhole and given skills. The indigenous were given books and real shoes. The Japanese-Americans were delighted to go stay in labor camps and have their property confiscated. *eyeroll*

 

[murph63]

I agree to some extent, but given the MAGAT/Trumpism push to rewrite American history, I don't see that ever happening. Remember, the slaves were brought here out of a hellhole and given skills. The indigenous were given books and real shoes. The Japanese-Americans were delighted to go stay in labor camps and have their property confiscated. *eyeroll*

I don't actually think it is the religion that is to blame, but raw human nature. We tend to fight against our "better angels" ruthlessly and will always utilize whatever tool is at hand to do whatever evil is truly in our hearts.

Religion never kept anyone from doing whatever evil was truly in their hearts any more than atheism kept anyone from doing whatever good is in their hearts.

What I find most appalling is when religion claims some mantle of moral authority as if religion hasn't caused vast swaths of humans to be killed and enslaved.

 

[Cypress]

So long as it is taught honestly!

Good, now you're backtracking and admitting a religious studies curriculum is perfectly legitimate in public colleges and highschool AP classes.

Here is the religious studies curriculum at the State-supported, taxpayer-funded University of California- Davis. As an atheist, are welcome to sue in court to get the University to censor these classes. But you're going to lose...and lose big time

UC Davis Religious Studies Curriculum​

RST 023 — Introduction to Judaism

RST 031 — Introduction to Jainism

RST 034 — Introduction to Buddhism

RST 045 — Christianity

RST 060 — Introduction to Islam

RST 068 — Introduction to Hinduism

RST 040 — New Testament

RST 065C — The Qur'an & Its Interpretation

 

[Cypress]

OIC. Mentioning atheism as a state policy in communist (or other) regimes in history class sounds fair enough; it is not teaching that we should be atheists (Or not).

It's funny to me that both religion and sex are part of the human experience, yet the same ppl who rebel against sex ed in public school don't blink about efforts to teach Xtian beliefs in the same venue.

Correct. Teaching is not the same as promoting.

A highschool or college can teach the history of Communism or the history of Nazi Germany without promoting Communism or Naziism.

 

[murph63]

Good, now you're backtracking and admitting a religious studies curriculum is perfectly legitimate in public colleges and highschool AP classes.

I never said otherwise. What I don't want is you bible thumper/god botherers teaching your FAITH in the schools.

And I'm kinda uncomfortable with your proto-Christian nationalist views. You know where you blather on about the greatness of Western Civilization which is built on Christian thought.

You overplay your hand. But I understand it. You want your faith put to the fore.