Oklahoma Bible mandate challenged in Court

Cypress said:
You stated we need to keep religion out of public school. You didn't carve out special exceptions for elective classes or age level.

Explain what this huge difference is between a 19 year old college freshman enrolling in an Introduction to Buddhism class, versus an 18 year old highschool senior enrolling in an Introduction to Buddhism AP class.
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I guess my point was mandatory religion in Texas! Plus grade school and HS are mandatory, College is elective!
So you think the founding fathers were full of shit,keeping religion and State separate!
 
Melchizedek=Tecumseh said:
I guess my point was mandatory religion in Texas! Plus grade school and HS are mandatory, College is elective!
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Right, religious studies classes should be an elective, like art history or music appreciation, but they should not be prohibited or censored.
Melchizedek=Tecumseh said:
So you think the founding fathers were full of shit,keeping religion and State separate!
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Most of the Founders went to colleges that were set up by churches and still had an active seminary function.

The Declaration of Independence says nothing about separation of church and state as an objective of the revolution.

Separation of Church and State was an idea the Baptists wanted and won support for. The fact that Bible thumpers themselves came up with the idea of separation of church and state is a historical fact that today's holy rollers should be taught
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Agree that there is a gap between teaching *about* something and teaching it in a promotional manner. The Fundies/ Evangelists who are pushing nonsense like this business in Oklahoma want the latter, of course. Even to the point of spending public money on Bibles to distribute to the students. Thankfully that is dead now.
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You and I are on the same page.
 
Cypress said:
Right, religious studies classes should be an elective, like art history or music appreciation, but they should not be prohibited or censored.

Most of the Founders went to colleges that were set up by churches and still had an active seminary function.

The Declaration of Independence says nothing about separation of church and state as an objective of the revolution.

Separation of Church and State was an idea the Baptists wanted and won support for. The fact that Bible thumpers themselves came up with the idea of separation of church and state is a historical fact that today's holy rollers should be taught
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So you're fine with Muslim pray rugs in public schools facing Mecca! Cool
 
Cypress said:
Incorrect, I specifically referenced about all the great thinkers and ideas of atheism, from Sigmund Freud, to Jean Paul Satre, to the French Revolution, to Soviet state atheism, without prejudice to separating the good from the bad.

You are obviously identical to a dogmatic religious fanatic in that you cannot tolerate anything negative being discussed about the history of atheism.
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there are no good ideas from atheism.
 
murph63 said:
@Cypress: you are propagating one of the worst aspects of Christian thought leaders like Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Bakker, et al. You are dishonest and play coy with your faith. Most of them were fake Christians. You are an interesting variant: a Christian who so hates the fact it makes you look "less smart" so you DENY being a Christian and then go on to DEFEND CHRISTIANITY HARD.

You are transparent and....well, for lack of a better word: an immoral person. You have NO ETHICS. You just namedrop ethics, but like all the books on your bookshelf you didn't learn anything from looking at the words.
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he want to keep the authority structures of the churches but change the teachings to masonic satanism.
 
Cypress said:
Nope. Promoting religion is different than teaching a religious studies class.

Do you think it is possible to teach a history of Communism and history of Communist ideology class without promoting Communism? I do. It's done all the time.
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you promote the authority structures of modern churches but want to change the teachings to masonic satanism.
 
Cypress said:
Nope. Promoting religion is different than teaching a religious studies class.

Do you think it is possible to teach a history of Communism and history of Communist ideology class without promoting Communism? I do. It's done all the time.
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Apples and oranges! Review why the Pilgrims invaded America!
To get the Fuck away from the Crazy Ass Organized Religion in Europe!
 
@Cypress I
Cypress said:
The Oklahoma Bible mandate has supposedly been rescinded:

'Mandate Rescinded: In October 2025, the newly appointed state superintendent, Lindel Fields, officially rescinded the order and stated there were no plans to distribute Bibles or mandate biblical curriculum in classrooms."​

The corollary topic introduced in this thread is whether or not any religion should be taught in state-supported schools.
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And based on our track record in the USA of NOT being able to keep it between the ditches (especially when we are UNDER ATTACK by the religious right for the last 40 years) I'm going to require VERY STRICT scrutiny of ANY efforts to shoehorn your faith into daily life and cram it down our throats.

Cypress said:
I think it is dangerously authoritarian to say we must censor and prohibit religious studies classes on Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, or Christianity in public colleges or as highschool AP classes.
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I honestly wish you would read my post before responding.
 
murph63 said:
I'm going to require VERY STRICT scrutiny of ANY efforts to shoehorn faith into daily life and cram it down our throats!
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You are not going to require Jack shit.

The University of California does not need your permission to provide a comprehensive suite of religious studies coursework on Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Jainism Islam, Hinduism.

No University of California student needs your permission to enroll in an Introduction to Hinduism class.

Public high schools and colleges are free to teach world religions objectively, as long as they don't promote the practice of any one particular religion. No university or highschool in California needs an authoritarian like you to approve it.
 
Melchizedek=Tecumseh said:
Apples and oranges! Review why the Pilgrims invaded America!
To get the Fuck away from the Crazy Ass Organized Religion in Europe!
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The pilgrims were 150 years before the American revolution. By the time of the Revolution, established Anglican/ Episcopalian state churches were the norm in the colonies.

That's why the Baptists and other religious dissenters insisted on separation of church and state; to get out from under the thumb of the State sanctioned Anglican churches.

Teaching religious studies objectively has always been legal in public schools.

You know who wanted to remove any and all objective study of religions from the classroom? It was the Soviet Communists.
 
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