Oklahoma Bible mandate challenged in Court

murph63 said:
But at least with my version of morality (forgive me for using YOUR word) --the ability to know murder is "wrong"-- is based on something REAL.

If I were to meet you I would be worried about being around you. The ONLY reason you know murder is "wrong" is because of some invisible force that apparently TOLD you it was wrong.

That makes you kinda scary. What if your invisible magic being does a 1Sam15:3? You gonna go with it?

If not, why not?

At least with me you know why I won't murder someone. And my position isn't variable based on invisible magic beings who somehow communicate to you telepathically(?)



Yeah it does. As per usual you SPECIALIZE in special pleading.
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cypress and his ilk cannot clear the bar he claims is low.

you're missing the easy arguments.

its not a low bar. if just this bar was achieved by all, we would have perfect world.

churches are coopted by warmonger cretins who cannot clear the low bar and advocate genocide.
 
Jerry Mathers said:
cypress and his ilk cannot clear the bar he claims is low.

you're missing the easy arguments.

its not a low bar. if just this bar was achieved by all, we would have perfect world.

churches are coopted by warmonger cretins who cannot clear the low bar and advocate genocide.
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Random words and phrases. Go learn some English.
 
murph63 said:
The ONLY reason you know murder is "wrong" is because of some invisible force that apparently TOLD you it was wrong!
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Beneficence, justice, temperance, prudence, fidelity, veracity are invisible virtues that are only perceived by the moral conscience. You can't measure an ounce of beneficence or calculate a yard of justice.
murph63 said:
At least with me you know why I won't murder someone!
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Only because you believe in a social contract that guarantees in theory that if you don't kill people, they will restrain themselves from killing you.

That is utilitarian self-interest.
It's not a statement or principle of the innate value of human life, and it doesn't define right and wrong in an objective and absolute sense.
 
Cypress said:
Beneficence, justice, temperance, prudence, fidelity, veracity are invisible virtues that are only perceived by the moral conscience. You can't measure an ounce of beneficence or calculate a yard of justice.

Only because you believe in a social contract that guarantees in theory that if you don't kill people, they will restrain themselves from killing you.

That is utilitarian self-interest.
It's not a statement or principle of the innate value of human life, and it doesn't define right and wrong in an objective and absolute sense.
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I am fascinated at another poster's point: you seem to complain about reciprocity as a basis for a morality but Jesus himself told us in Luke 6:31 "As you would have others do unto you, do so unto them".

That's 1000000000% "recpiprocity".

So do you feel that Jesus was a flawed moral teacher?
 
Jerry Mathers said:
cypress and his ilk cannot clear the bar he claims is low.

you're missing the easy arguments.

its not a low bar. if just this bar was achieved by all, we would have perfect world.
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It does not follow that being able to restrain yourself from murdering means that greed, cheating, arrogance, envy, wrath, sloth, and deceit will be eliminated.
 
murph63 said:
but Jesus himself told us in Luke 6:31 "As you would have others do unto you, do so unto them".
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You deliberately cherry picked and left out all key context.
That's based first and foremost on the principle that human life objectively has innate and inherent value because we are created in the image of God.
murph63 said:
That's 1000000000% "recpiprocity".

So do you feel that Jesus was a flawed moral teacher?
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I see that you are tacitly accepting that beneficence, justice, temperance, prudence, fidelity, veracity are invisible virtues that are only perceived by the moral conscience.

You belatedly and suddenly realize you cannot measure them, weigh them, or mathematically calculate their physical dimensions.
.
 
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Uncensored2008 said:
It's a low [moral] bar, and still you can't clear it!
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You worship, support, and spend countless hours defending a guy who cheated on all his wives, defrauded his own charity foundation, and was found by both criminal and civil juries to be liable for sexual assault, business fraud, and defamation.
 
Cypress said:
I see that you are tacitly accepting
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I"ve asked you before to stop the dishonest phrasing. I see you persist. Dishonesty seems to be the only consistent aspect to your "morality".

So much for your vaunted "beliefs"


Cypress said:
that beneficence, justice, temperance, prudence, fidelity, veracity are invisible virtues that are only perceived by the moral conscience.
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I made no such concession. It seems to me that for you just the existence of abstactions like "good" means there must be something supernatural.

So do I think oatmeal cookies are "good" because GOD?

Cypress said:
You belatedly and suddenly realize you cannot measure them, weigh them, or mathematically calculate their physical dimensions.
.
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Your dishonest debate style is a thing of beauty. You never ever actually engage with a point. You just shoutdown, mischaracterize and insult.


Your "morality" sux, dude. Maybe your God isn't the one you THINK you want to worship.
 
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