In a road trip! Gas, $4.44 a gallon!

archives said:
Whoa, lot of hate going on there, and how can one hate Boston, one of America’s iconic cities, and you don’t need a car in Boston

And running errands shouldn’t burn thru gas, and I play golf closer to home
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He's right. Boston SUCKS. In fact, the whole state of Taxachusetts SUCKS.
 
archives said:
State and local tax add ons, and the funny part of those are that if the local governments eliminate or reduce the tax the retailers often won’t reduce the cost proportionally. Prices never go back to where they came
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Kind of funny that everyone talks about the oil companies gouging people yet the federal, state and local gobblements make more in profit on a gallon of gasoline than Exxon does. And they don't do shit to produce it

I do agree that gasoline prices never come down as fast as they go up
 
QP! said:
While i might agree that having young kids (family) in their busiest times might make car ownership over car share the better option i am wondering now if you have ever explored car share seriously as your default seems to be Uber and not a car share.

I have lived in big cities with competing car shares for 30 years now. From my downtown condo, i can book a car on my phone app and be in that car, usually as fast as someone can access our building parkade and be on the road in their own car. That is how many cars they have in their fleets and how close they tend to be my front door.

I pay for two car share services each with annual renewals of under $100/yr and then only when i use the car.

The one car service uses only Toyota prius and has more cars and is a service i can grab a car anywhere in the service and leave it anywhere in the service range (thus one way trips are an option), and the second service requires picking up and returning the car to its dedicated parking spot but their fleet has everything from convertibles, to sedans, to pickup trucks to mini vans to cargo vans, so when my nephew who goes to the local university here needed a moving van, i was able to show and help with one.

My annual car expense over the last 30 years has averaged less than $750/yr, all in. That includes gas, insurance and vehicle booking costs but not car rental when i am on vacation elsewhere. But even then my one car share is international and when i traveled in London England i had access to it there so i did not need a formal rent a car. i saved a lot of money by just using my car share on a 'needed only' basis.
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I'm not aware of any service like that in SF that is essentially right outside your door. You don't have to answer, but what service or app are you referring to?

I have to drive for work, my wife uses the car and my daughter is active. Given that we don't have something that is basically next to us, having a car is necessary for us.
 
cawacko said:
I'm not aware of any service like that in SF that is essentially right outside your door. You don't have to answer, but what service or app are you referring to?

I have to drive for work, my wife uses the car and my daughter is active. Given that we don't have something that is basically next to us, having a car is necessary for us.
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Google AI tells me these are SF majors. Zipcar is the one i am talking about with the varied fleet but also is international, meaning if you are London england or any of their many other world wide locations you use the same app to book and use a car there.



AI Overview



The major car-sharing and hourly rental services operating in San Francisco include Zipcar, Getaround, and Upshift. [1, 2, 3]

✅ Major Car-Sharing Options
    • 🚗 Zipcar
      • Type: Station-based hourly/daily car sharing.
      • How it works: Pick up and return to designated parking spots.
      • Inclusions: Gas and basic insurance are included. [1]
    • 📱 Getaround
      • Type: Peer-to-peer hourly/daily car sharing.
      • How it works: Rent cars directly from local owners via the app.
      • Inclusions: App-based instant unlocking and insurance coverage. [1, 2]
    • 🗝️ Upshift
      • Type: Delivery-based car sharing.
      • How it works: Cars are cleaned, maintained, and delivered to your door.
      • Inclusions: Includes electric vehicle options like Teslas. [1, 2]
 
cawacko said:
I'm not aware of any service like that in SF that is essentially right outside your door. You don't have to answer, but what service or app are you referring to?

I have to drive for work, my wife uses the car and my daughter is active. Given that we don't have something that is basically next to us, having a car is necessary for us.
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And if you require cars on a daily basis, many times a day, i am not sure a car share would prove more cost effective.

My transition from growing up small town, quasi rural and having a hand me down beater car on my 16th birthday replacing my bicycle and one hour ride to school each way, so i could stay and play sports and not rely on the school bus and then having a convertible second car at age 28 with my first big win, to no cars was based on my work being downtown and my transition to a downtown condo living person who made a commitment to live near where i worked.

I was able to walk to work and had 90+% of my needs within walking distance of my front door.

Even when i moved to midtown to get a townhome in a more family friendly neighborhood when i had the kids and dog life, i was minutes off the subway line to my downtown office.

It was a very hard transition for me to give up my car based on how i grew up and the beliefs i built around that. Once is did and got used it i never wanted to go back and have not. I always live in areas where everything is accessible in a short walk.
 
QP! said:
Google AI tells me these are SF majors. Zipcar is the one i am talking about with the varied fleet but also is international, meaning if you are London england or any of their many other world wide locations you use the same app to book and use a car there.



AI Overview



The major car-sharing and hourly rental services operating in San Francisco include Zipcar, Getaround, and Upshift. [1, 2, 3]

✅ Major Car-Sharing Options
    • 🚗Zipcar
      • Type: Station-based hourly/daily car sharing.
      • How it works: Pick up and return to designated parking spots.
      • Inclusions: Gas and basic insurance are included. [1]
    • 📱Getaround
      • Type: Peer-to-peer hourly/daily car sharing.
      • How it works: Rent cars directly from local owners via the app.
      • Inclusions: App-based instant unlocking and insurance coverage. [1, 2]
    • 🗝️Upshift
      • Type: Delivery-based car sharing.
      • How it works: Cars are cleaned, maintained, and delivered to your door.
      • Inclusions: Includes electric vehicle options like Teslas. [1, 2]
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I looked up Getaround and looks like it went out of business in the U.S. in early 2025. Looking at Upshift it sounds like most people order the car 24 hours in advance.

Zipcar does have one several blocks from me when I was playing around on their site. But I live on a really big hill. Where the car is parked is not a fun walk. So for the amount we use the car, having to go through the process of ordering and walking these big hills just isn't ideal for our family.
 
QP! said:
And if you require cars on a daily basis, many times a day, i am not sure a car share would prove more cost effective.

My transition from growing up small town, quasi rural and having a hand me down beater car on my 16th birthday replacing my bicycle and one hour ride to school each way, so i could stay and play sports and not rely on the school bus and then having a convertible second car at age 28 with my first big win, to no cars was based on my work being downtown and my transition to a downtown condo living person who made a commitment to live near where i worked.

I was able to walk to work and had 90+% of my needs within walking distance of my front door.

Even when i moved to midtown to get a townhome in a more family friendly neighborhood when i had the kids and dog life, i was minutes off the subway line to my downtown office.

It was a very hard transition for me to give up my car based on how i grew up and the beliefs i built around that. Once is did and got used it i never wanted to go back and have not. I always live in areas where everything is accessible in a short walk.
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Years ago, pre-family, I lived in Boston for nine months and I didn't have a car. Like you, I pretty much lived downtown and work was a 15 minute walk away. I knew I wasn't there permanently so I had no interest in buying a car.

Where I live in SF I can walk to bars and restaurants, which I love (well I don't really go to bars like I used to but I still love it on principle). But for our daily life, walking isn't really an option.
 
cawacko said:
I looked up Getaround and looks like it went out of business in the U.S. in early 2025. Looking at Upshift it sounds like most people order the car 24 hours in advance.

Zipcar does have one several blocks from me when I was playing around on their site. But I live on a really big hill. Where the car is parked is not a fun walk. So for the amount we use the car, having to go through the process of ordering and walking these big hills just isn't ideal for our family.
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I want to make a joke about 'saying you live on a big hill in san fran seems redundant'.

I am a person who likes to walk, and likes to walk hills. I go out of my way to walk and to walk hills. As we age i believe there is no better exercise than that and if you look at some of the longest lived peoples (hilly Italian and Greek mountain regions, etc) their main exercise is simply walking where they live as their main way to get around.

Putting my evolved hippie side aside (and it is evolved with my transition to downtown life as i was car and gym, weight lifting when younger) it sounds like, perhaps San Fran has reduced car share on city streets and not maximized as has been the case in the big cities i have lived in. On my two app's i have 5 cars currently (i just checked) all within a 4 minute walk out my front door.

App 1:
- Kia Soul - less than one minute walk out my front condo door. At the first street parking spot outside.
- Toyota Corolla Hybrid - about one minute walk
- Toyota Corolla Hatchback- about 3 minutes

App 2 :
- Prius C - 4 minutes

If i expand out to a 10 minute walk i can add about 12 more cars available.

Of course, my area i live in is flat, so there is that. :}
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It's been at or above $4 a gallon here because we, unfortunately, get our gasoline from California. But that's changing. Philips and Kinder Morgan are building a new 20" pipeline to Phoenix meaning we won't have to use California refineries any more. That will drop the price of gas, all on its own by $.10 to $.25 a gallon.

Of course, since gasoline consumption is going up, and production in the US is relatively flat, of course the price keeps rising. Maybe we should build a few new refineries...
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It doesn't help that 3 American refineries have been attacked in the past year.
A new one just came online again, though.
 
QP! said:
I want to make a joke about 'saying you live on a big hill in san fran seems redundant'.

I am a person who likes to walk, and likes to walk hills. I go out of my way to walk and to walk hills. As we age i believe there is no better exercise than that and if you look at some of the longest lived peoples (hilly Italian and Greek mountain regions, etc) their main exercise is simply walking where they live as their main way to get around.

Putting my evolved hippie side aside (and it is evolved with my transition to downtown life as i was car and gym, weight lifting when younger) it sounds like, perhaps San Fran has reduced car share on city streets and not maximized as has been the case in the big cities i have lived in. On my two app's i have 5 cars currently (i just checked) all within a 4 minute walk out my front door.

App 1:
- Kia Soul - less than one minute walk out my front condo door. At the first street parking spot outside.
- Toyota Corolla Hybrid - about one minute walk
- Toyota Corolla Hatchback- about 3 minutes

App 2 :
- Prius C - 4 minutes

If i expand out to a 10 minute walk i can add about 12 more cars available.

Of course, my area i live in is flat, so there is that. :}
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Ha! The SF hill part made me laugh. (But even by SF standards, we really do live on a big hill.)

I'm 54 and I work out 6 - 7 days a week, at least an hour a day. (I have an active 9 year old I'm trying to stay young for.) And that's on top of the walking we do.

But from a family perspective being without a car is far from optimal.
 
cawacko said:
Ha! The SF hill part made me laugh. (But even by SF standards, we really do live on a big hill.)

I'm 54 and I work out 6 - 7 days a week, at least an hour a day. (I have an active 9 year old I'm trying to stay young for.) And that's on top of the walking we do.

But from a family perspective being without a car is far from optimal.
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I am 4 years your senior (so respect ME), and in my early to mid 40's and for the ENTIRETY of my life prior from high school up was in the gym 5-6 days a week doing weights. I am sick of gyms and will never make them the core of my exercise again. I transitioned to cycling, hiking and walking about 6 years ago.
 
QP! said:
I am 4 years your senior (so respect ME), and in my early to mid 40's and for the ENTIRETY of my life prior from high school up was in the gym 5-6 days a week doing weights. I am sick of gyms and will never make them the core of my exercise again. I transitioned to cycling, hiking and walking about 6 years ago.
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kid-fan.gif
 
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QP! said:
I am 4 years your senior (so respect ME), and in my early to mid 40's and for the ENTIRETY of my life prior from high school up was in the gym 5-6 days a week doing weights. I am sick of gyms and will never make them the core of my exercise again. I transitioned to cycling, hiking and walking about 6 years ago.
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I don't disagree with you about gyms. I stopped going awhile ago as well. I do the P90X type exercises at home.
 
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cawacko said:
I don't disagree with you about gyms. I stopped going awhile ago as well. I do the P90X type exercises at home.
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True story.

My 3 years older brother is a unit. Naturally was always the biggest and strongest guy in school and then in high school and uni became a linebacker, just as steroids were starting to sneak in, and he got massive. He has always worked out and still does and even at his older age looks fit as fiddle. I was the wide receiver, long and lean and no steroids needed or taken but always worked out.

We were in Arizona about 6 years back just before covid came in, and i was at my hiking peak condition and would go to hike Cholla at Camelback Scottsdale about 3 evenings a week and once on the weekends and he decided he wanted to come with me instead of hitting the gym. Now i am the type to not try to push people so they won't enjoy this and try to match their pace, but no matter the pace i could see him greatly laboring but trying not to show it, until he said he had to quit. We were 2/3rds to summit.

That did not surprise me at all as nothing prepares you for hills or stairs unless it is hills and stairs. You can do an hour on the stair climber in the gym a day but you try to walk up 30 floors in a condo instead of taking an elevator (i used to do that each day) or do a hike with hills and you will struggle mightily.

I also did the Grand Canyon that year, a hike i really recommend and i would say the average age of the ones going to the bottom was about 40 years old with some in their 70's. With any walk, if you pace yourself and have water you should be able to do it. We met a couple who were 78 and 76 who had done it every few years since it was their honeymoon trip over 50 years prior and this was their last year doing it. Where it was taking us 6 hours to get to the top they planned on 14 hours leaving before daylight and arriving at the top when it was dark.
 
QP! said:
True story.

My 3 years older brother is a unit. Naturally was always the biggest and strongest guy in school and then in high school and uni became a linebacker, just as steroids were starting to sneak in, and he got massive. He has always worked out and still does and even at his older age looks fit as fiddle. I was the wide receiver, long and lean and no steroids needed or taken but always worked out.

We were in Arizona about 6 years back just before covid came in, and i was at my hiking peak condition and would go to hike Cholla at Camelback Scottsdale about 3 evenings a week and once on the weekends and he decided he wanted to come with me instead of hitting the gym. Now i am the type to not try to push people so they won't enjoy this and try to match their pace, but no matter the pace i could see him greatly laboring but trying not to show it, until he said he had to quit. We were 2/3rds to summit.

That did not surprise me at all as nothing prepares you for hills or stairs unless it is hills and stairs. You can do an hour on the stair climber in the gym a day but you try to walk up 30 floors in a condo instead of taking an elevator (i used to do that each day) or do a hike with hills and you will struggle mightily.

I also did the Grand Canyon that year, a hike i really recommend and i would say the average age of the ones going to the bottom was about 40 years old with some in their 70's. With any walk, if you pace yourself and have water you should be able to do it. We met a couple who were 78 and 76 who had done it every few years since it was their honeymoon trip over 50 years prior and this was their last year doing it. Where it was taking us 6 hours to get to the top they planned on 14 hours leaving before daylight and arriving at the top when it was dark.
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That's impressive!!

When I was young and single I went to the gym because I wanted to try and look good to impress women. Now I just want to stay in shape to be active with my daughter and play golf. I like the P90X type routines because it's not just about trying to get big.

(I was going to make a joke about walking some of these hills in SF almost feels like hiking the Grand Canyon, but I won't go that far. Haha.)
 
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