60% of Americans did not go to college.

We need to ensure a high school education is rigorous and practical enough to get full employment.
College should be for scholastically exceptional and/or exceptionally driven people, not everybody. Many people waste
a lot of time and money on college who aren't cut out for it or are too immature.
 
What exactly was Trump University teaching?


A lot of smart people out there who only have a high school degree. Boundless curiosity and a commitment to self improvement are what it takes.

The USA unfortunately has a caste system. University and graduate school education is prohibitively expensive for a lot of young adults.
 
Micawber said:
We need to ensure a high school education is rigorous and practical enough to get full employment.
College should be for scholastically exceptional and/or exceptionally driven people, not everybody. Many people waste
a lot of time and money on college who aren't cut out for it or are too immature.
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Don't really disagree. But right now, a college degree is required for jobs that used to be high school diploma requred.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
Tell me how many of you have had a college degree holder build your house, fix your plumbing, repair your home wiring, fix your computer controlled car? The list goes on, not everyone needs a college degree. But you idiots think all non-college degree holders are red-neck, bible toting, gun loving Trump supporters. BTW how many of you elitist hold a degree? And is that degree higher than a BA in basket weaving? And before you ask yes I have a bachelor of science degree.
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no one has a BA in basketweaving, you dolt
 
Cypress said:
What exactly was Trump University teaching?


A lot of smart people out there who only have a high school degree. Boundless curiosity and a commitment to self improvement are what it takes.

The USA unfortunately has a caste system. University and graduate school education is prohibitively expensive for a lot of young adults.
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A system like Germany's could be modified for the U.S. Your tuition at institutes of higher education is free as long as you qualify academically. For people who prefer other employment, free trade school if you show aptitude for the field you've chosen. Otherwise, anyone can go anywhere if they have the $$ to pay for it.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
A system like Germany's could be modified for the U.S. Your tuition at institutes of higher education is free as long as you qualify academically. For people who prefer other employment, free trade school if you show aptitude for the field you've chosen. Otherwise, anyone can go anywhere if they have the $$ to pay for it.
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Eminently reasonable.

I came out of graduate school 20k in debt, and I thought that was bad. It is probably more daunting now!

There obviously need to be rules on accreditation of vocational schools. Scams like Trump University should never see a dime of taxpayer funded tuition support
 
BidenPresident said:
Don't really disagree. But right now, a college degree is required for jobs that used to be high school diploma requred.
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Yep, and it's been that way for years. Many moons ago, I worked for a publishing company for eight years. I used both Mac and PC platforms, could type 108 words per minute, knew computer coding on their propriety system, and just about every office-related app available back then. The company changed business directions and laid off everyone in the publishing and computer depts. When I applied for clerical/administrative assistant jobs, I was asked did I have a degree. Despite years of experience, they wouldn't consider anyone w/o one... for a job field that is basically learn-on-the-job. My late husband's best friend owned a small service station and auto repair business; he said that HE wouldn't hire anything just to man the cash register unless they had a couple of years of college. He said h.s. grads that he had hired couldn't even make change in their heads.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Yep, and it's been that way for years. Many moons ago, I worked for a publishing company for eight years. I used both Mac and PC platforms, could type 108 words per minute, knew computer coding on their propriety system, and just about every office-related app available back then. The company changed business directions and laid off everyone in the publishing and computer depts. When I applied for clerical/administrative assistant jobs, I was asked did I have a degree. Despite years of experience, they wouldn't consider anyone w/o one... for a job field that is basically learn-on-the-job. My late husband's best friend owned a small service station and auto repair business; he said that HE wouldn't hire anything just to man the cash register unless they had a couple of years of college. He said h.s. grads that he had hired couldn't even make change in their heads.
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Yes, confirms my experience as well.
 
Walt said:
All went to college.
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Maybe I'm missing something but did anyone claim they didn't? The purpose of the thread is to sh*t on those who didn't graduate. Well, Gates, Jobs, Zuckerburg, Ellison etc. all fit in that category.

Take this scenario. Young white boy grows up in/around NYC and his daddy works on Wall St. This boy goes to $50K/yr private school in NYC or elite boarding school in the Northeast. Through his Daddy's Wall St connections he gets into an Ivy League or some fancy liberal arts school on the East Coast. Then take a (black) kid from the South Side of Chicago. Say his father's been in jail and his mother is struggling to put on the table for the family. The kid may try in school but no money and not good grades or test scores so college isn't really an option.

Are we to sit here and say the former is so much of a better person than the latter? Because that's the underlying theme here.
 
Darth Omar said:
You can learn lots of skills in the military that could translate into jobs and you don’t come out in 6 figure debt.

Or come out as a liberal with screwed up ideas.
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Lets say you put 8 years into the military, and lose $30k per year of potential extra income. That saving of $100k of debt just cost you $240k. I am not saying that the military is always this bad of a deal, but I am saying that sometimes it is a bad deal.

And it can be an amazingly liberal place. You get thrown in with people of all sorts of sexualities, and have to form a strong team with them.
 
cawacko said:
Maybe I'm missing something but did anyone claim they didn't? The purpose of the thread is to sh*t on those who didn't graduate. Well, Gates, Jobs, Zuckerburg, Ellison etc. all fit in that category.

Take this scenario. Young white boy grows up in/around NYC and his daddy works on Wall St. This boy goes to $50K/yr private school in NYC or elite boarding school in the Northeast. Through his Daddy's Wall St connections he gets into an Ivy League or some fancy liberal arts school on the East Coast. Then take a (black) kid from the South Side of Chicago. Say his father's been in jail and his mother is struggling to put on the table for the family. The kid may try in school but no money and not good grades or test scores so college isn't really an option.

Are we to sit here and say the former is so much of a better person than the latter? Because that's the underlying theme here.
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Theme is a lot of dumb people are in America and they voted for Trump.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
A system like Germany's could be modified for the U.S. Your tuition at institutes of higher education is free as long as you qualify academically. For people who prefer other employment, free trade school if you show aptitude for the field you've chosen. Otherwise, anyone can go anywhere if they have the $$ to pay for it.
Click to expand...

How are we going to pay for it on top of 3 Stimulus packages!?
 
cawacko said:
Maybe I'm missing something but did anyone claim they didn't? The purpose of the thread is to sh*t on those who didn't graduate. Well, Gates, Jobs, Zuckerburg, Ellison etc. all fit in that category.

Take this scenario. Young white boy grows up in/around NYC and his daddy works on Wall St. This boy goes to $50K/yr private school in NYC or elite boarding school in the Northeast. Through his Daddy's Wall St connections he gets into an Ivy League or some fancy liberal arts school on the East Coast. Then take a (black) kid from the South Side of Chicago. Say his father's been in jail and his mother is struggling to put on the table for the family. The kid may try in school but no money and not good grades or test scores so college isn't really an option.

Are we to sit here and say the former is so much of a better person than the latter? Because that's the underlying theme here.
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A lot of Wall St employees are Jews.

Jews once lived in many of the worst neighborhoods in NYC.

Like Brownsville, East New York, Washington Heights & much of the Bronx.

They pulled themselves up despite discrimination.

It's not a fair World, and there's no evidence of Black intellectual equality.
 
Jan Sobieski said:
A lot of Wall St employees are Jews.

Jews once lived in many of the worst neighborhoods in NYC.

Like Brownsville, East New York, Washington Heights & much of the Bronx.

They pulled themselves up despite discrimination.

It's not a fair World, and there's no evidence of Black intellectual equality.
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I'm not exactly sure what you just said but...

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Cypress said:
Eminently reasonable.

I came out of graduate school 20k in debt, and I thought that was bad. It is probably more daunting now!

There obviously need to be rules on accreditation of vocational schools. Scams like Trump University should never see a dime of taxpayer funded tuition support
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Absolutely! My middle daughter changed careers after getting a degree in graphics design. She decided to follow her dream of becoming a vet tech. The only school in the area offering a two-year degree program in the field was Sanford-Brown. It cost her $30K to go there. She would come home pissed all the time because they'd show up for class but the instructor wouldn't. They had to take the same rigorous science courses that an RN takes -- microbiology, A&P, chemistry, etc., plus clinicals where they were supposed to get practical experience. Most of the other students ended up dropping out. She graduated with honors, and just finished paying off her student loan last year. I think where they live the average salary for a degreed vet tech is ~$20-24/hour. Not so much for going $30K in debt. I believe Sanford-Brown went out of business after ripping off thousands of students.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Absolutely! My middle daughter changed careers after getting a degree in graphics design. She decided to follow her dream of becoming a vet tech. The only school in the area offering a two-year degree program in the field was Sanford-Brown. It cost her $30K to go there. She would come home pissed all the time because they'd show up for class but the instructor wouldn't. They had to take the same rigorous science courses that an RN takes -- microbiology, A&P, chemistry, etc., plus clinicals where they were supposed to get practical experience. Most of the other students ended up dropping out. She graduated with honors, and just finished paying off her student loan last year. I think where they live the average salary for a degreed vet tech is ~$20-24/hour. Not so much for going $30K in debt. I believe Sanford-Brown went out of business after ripping off thousands of students.
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For profit colleges have the highest default rate for student loans. A lot of right wingers don't know this.
 
cawacko said:
Maybe I'm missing something but did anyone claim they didn't?
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Not to be rude, but you clearly missed something here. Read the title of the thread, "60% of Americans did not go to college." ALL THE LISTED BILLIONAIRES WENT TO COLLEGE. They all learned life changing things in college, and made life changing connections in college.

They did not get the degree, but no one argued that was important. It is the education that is important. The degree certainly helps to get a job, but it is different from the education.

cawacko said:
Are we to sit here and say the former is so much of a better person than the latter? Because that's the underlying theme here.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I cannot judge human beings on such little information. But I will say that someone with little education, who put little work into getting an education is almost certainly worse for the economy.

One of those kids has had a lot invested in him by society, and the other has not. Neither did anything to earn that investment. My question is why did the poor Black kid have so little invested in him?
 
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