65% conservatives 'proud to be American,' just 37% liberals agree

iolo said:
President Obama was your best since Roosevelt, but was constantly sabotaged by the insane racists, as you know, and now you've got a senile clown who encourages everything bad about the USA. Trump beats his hollow chest occasionally, but he seldom remembers why.
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racism had nothing to do with anything -especially Obama's foreign policy..
 
@ post 1

I can't speak for all liberals, but the word "patriotism" is, in some ways, just a code for nationalism. It is a word that has been used, abused, and employed for nefarious reasons by people from Hitler to Stalin. It has commonly been a word used to manipulate people, to start unnecessary wars (or we might see mushroom clouds!).

People who serve their community, who have their community and their nation's best interests at heart, humanitarians, are the people that should be held up as models. Not people who think the world patriotism somehow gives them a sense of false bravado and moral superiority.

"I have already several times expressed the thought that in our day the feeling of patriotism is an unnatural, irrational, and harmful feeling, and a cause of a great part of the ills from which mankind is suffering, and that, consequently, this feeling should not be cultivated, as is now being done, but should, on the contrary, be suppressed and eradicated by all means available to rational men. Yet, strange to say – though it is undeniable that the universal armaments and destructive wars which are ruining the peoples result from that one feeling – all my arguments showing the backwardness, anachronism, and harmfulness of patriotism have been met, and are still met, either by silence, by intentional misinterpretation, or by a strange unvarying reply to the effect that only bad patriotism (Jingoism or Chauvinism) is evil, but that real good patriotism is a very elevated moral feeling, to condemn which is not only irrational but wicked....What this real, good patriotism consists in, we are never told; or, if anything is said about it, instead of explanation we get declamatory, inflated phrases, or, finally, some other conception is substituted for patriotism – something which has nothing in common with the patriotism we all know, and from the results of which we all suffer so severely."
-- Leo Tolstoy
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Cypress said:
@ post 1

I can't speak for all liberals, but the word "patriotism" is, in some ways, just a code for nationalism. It is a word that has been used, abused, and employed for nefarious reasons by people from Hitler to Stalin. It has commonly been a word used to manipulate people, to start unnecessary wars (or we might see mushroom clouds!).

People who serve their community, who have their community and their nation's best interests at heart, humanitarians, are the people that should be held up as models. Not people who think the world patriotism somehow gives them a sense of false bravado and moral superiority.
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this isn't Germany post WWI or jingoism. Nationalism is the way of the world..adapt or get left behind
 
Cypress said:
@ post 1

I can't speak for all liberals, but the word "patriotism" is, in some ways, just a code for nationalism. It is a word that has been used, abused, and employed for nefarious reasons by people from Hitler to Stalin. It has commonly been a word used to manipulate people, to start unnecessary wars (or we might see mushroom clouds!).

People who serve their community, who have their community and their nation's best interests at heart, humanitarians, are the people that should be held up as models. Not people who think the world patriotism somehow gives them a sense of false bravado and moral superiority.
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To be 'patriotic' only requires one to fly a (Chinese made) American flag from the window of your vehicle.

Yes..the term was used by Bushco against anyone who spoke out against the Iraq invasion, during his lead up to war
 
noise said:
this isn't Germany post WWI or jingoism. Nationalism is the way of the world..adapt or get left behind
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Nazis were nationalists, in their most extreme form.

It is not a very far jump from the nationalism of Trump supporters, to the kind of rightwing nationalism that history shows us over and over leads to conflict, xenophobia, and even war.

I am not impressed by people who crow about patriotism and nationalism. I am impressed by humanitarians, and people who serve their communities without getting on a roof and crowing about patriotism. Didn't some of our nation's great founders warn against the siren song of extremist patriotism and nationalism?
 
Irish said:
Why do you think they support black NFL players spitting on the flag.
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The buddies of you and Annatta/Noise lecgtured me that I wasn't a patriot unless I supported invading Iraq.

That is exactly why I, and probably many others, reject your use and your definition of the word patriotism.
 
tinfoil said:
1000 person samples are not big enough to make meaningful inferences. For this population size the minimum sample is over 3000
https://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
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How did you get that? I only get 3000 when I use a confidence interval of 2 with a confidence level of 95%. That's an extremely high standard though. Usually a confidence interval of 5 with a confidence level of 95% is perfectly acceptable - which you'd only need about 300 people for.

I'm using a population size of 300,000,000, but because of the way the margin of error formula works, with population size being a square root in the divisor of the formula, population size is practically irrelevant once you get larger than like 1000. I.e. you need 357 people for a confidence interval of 5 with a confidence interval of 95% in a population size of 5000, while you need 384 for the same level of confidence in a population size of 5 quadrillion.
 
Cypress said:
Nazis were nationalists, in their most extreme form.

It is not a very far jump from the nationalism of Trump supporters, to the kind of rightwing nationalism that history shows us over and over leads to conflict, xenophobia, and even war.

I am not impressed by people who crow about patriotism and nationalism. I am impressed by humanitarians, and people who serve their communities without getting on a roof and crowing about patriotism. Didn't some of our nation's great founders warn against the siren song of extremist patriotism and nationalism?
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Nazi's is ridiculous. We are talking economic nationalism.
The problem is the America bashing for no reason -much the same extreme as the jingoism of the yellow ribbon fever that led to Iraq.

The poll is small - too small for statistical value -but the numbers are frightening.
when I write stuff like 'America First" the let goes batchit crazy.
 
Cypress said:
The buddies of you and Annatta/Noise lecgtured me that I wasn't a patriot unless I supported invading Iraq.

That is exactly why I, and probably many others, reject your use and your definition of the word patriotism.
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I was against Iraq. It was a stupid war of interventionism -just like Libya.
I am consistent on that insanity - it brings about failed states and terrorism
 
noise said:
Nazi's is ridiculous. We are talking economic nationalism.
The problem is the America bashing for no reason -much the same extreme as the jingoism of the yellow ribbon fever that led to Iraq.

The poll is small - too small for statistical value -but the numbers are frightening.
when I write stuff like 'America First" the let goes batchit crazy.
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Here is your nationalism.
Charlottesville-white-supremacists-nazi-salute.jpg

These are Trump-worshipping white nationalists.
These are your political allies,
Your allies here on this board minimized, excused, or rationalized the behavior of Trump-loving white nationalists,
Trump himself implicitly and tacitly encourages white nationalism, islamophobia, and xenophobia.
 
noise said:
look. Obma was the worst thing to happen to our foreign policy. we got slammed out of the ME,and he was a complete baby dealing with Putin-
wouldn't even TALK to him at meetings.

But I don't go around calling him a ne'er do well - his mindset was we somehow had to apologize for being American.

Now we threw out all that junk for MAGA-and that means basically realpolitik
( except for Russia which Congress fvcked up).

Trump's American First is a re-alignment and you see that in immigration too with proposed means testing to get in here
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Lying, racist, ignorant, piece of shit.

The mere thought that you would think President Obama is worse than bush and the war he started and the millions he murdered, says a lot about you.

You think President Obama is worse because he's BLACK....PERIOD!

A Black man infiltrated your racist white house and you're still pissed about it. COWARD!
 
Cypress said:
@ post 1

I can't speak for all liberals, but the word "patriotism" is, in some ways, just a code for nationalism. It is a word that has been used, abused, and employed for nefarious reasons by people from Hitler to Stalin. It has commonly been a word used to manipulate people, to start unnecessary wars (or we might see mushroom clouds!).

People who serve their community, who have their community and their nation's best interests at heart, humanitarians, are the people that should be held up as models. Not people who think the world patriotism somehow gives them a sense of false bravado and moral superiority.
Click to expand...

You should term it hyper-patriotism to avoid alienating people who have normal, healthy patriotic reverence for their country.
 
noise said:
Nazi's is ridiculous. We are talking economic nationalism.
The problem is the America bashing for no reason -much the same extreme as the jingoism of the yellow ribbon fever that led to Iraq.

The poll is small - too small for statistical value -but the numbers are frightening.
Click to expand...


We don't bash America, we bash racist, bigoted, white men like you who's policies are destroying America.

Learn the difference.
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