Archaeology of the New Testament

[Jerry Mathers]

Correlation does not explain causation.
You can't make the jump from saying that electrons are conveying electrical signals in the brain, to saying that explains precisely why humans have a subjective mental experience and a unitary sense of personal identity we call "me" that experiences are happening to.

You are jumping over a a massive gap of unknowns and uncertainties to declare premature victory. That doesn't even remotely resemble scientific inquiry.

stfu.

 

[Cypress]

stfu!!

Explain precisely why inanimate electrons and inanimate electrical impulses give you a subjective mental experience and a unitary sense of personal identity you refer to as 'myself' to which things in the world are happening to.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Explain precisely why inanimate electrons and inanimate electrical impulses give you a subjective mental experience and a unitary sense of personal identity you refer to as 'myself' to which things in the world are happening to.

its our advanced future planning capacity and social nature of our species which allow us to model others internally and calculate or precalculate social impacts.

why? to keep living.

 

[Cypress]

its our advanced future planning capacity and social nature of our species which allow us to model others internally and calculate or precalculate social impacts.

why? to keep living.

Alright, so you simply can't give a scientific explanation to the question.

​

Explain precisely why inanimate electrons and inanimate electrical impulses give you a subjective mental experience and a unitary sense of personal identity you refer to as 'myself' to which things in the world are happening to.

 

[ZenMode]

for practical purposes, yes.

me.

still me.

So, your skin and bones are what's thinking thought, feeling feelings and making decisions?

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Alright, so you simply can't give a scientific explanation to the question.

​

whatever you say, Donny Most.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

So, your skin and bones are what's thinking thought, feeling feelings and making decisions?

that would be the brain.

 

[Cypress]

whatever you say

You're still not giving a scientific explanation for precisely how inanimate electrons and inanimate electrical impulses give you a subjective personal mental experience, or how they give you a unitary experience of unique self identity you think of as a "me".​

 

[Jerry Mathers]

You're still not giving a scientific explanation for precisely how inanimate electrons and inanimate electrical impulses give you a subjective personal mental experience, or how they give you a unitary experience of unique self identity you think of as a "me".​

electrons are very animate.

stick your finger in a light socket, yahoo serious.

 

[ZenMode]

No, I don't think that . A 'being' refers to a living person. That's ridiculous. And you cannot precisely scientifically explain what consciousness is or what causes it, so I'm not going to use sloppy, vague language to describe something that might exist at a higher level of reality than matter and energy.

Instead of trying to get me to use your words, you are going to have to accept my words. I think the best current explanation for the cause of a lawful and rational universe is some kind of higher rational agency or organizing principle. Common sense and logic tell me that the rational never comes from the inanimate and irrational.

In order to intend to do anything requires consciousness. Rocks can't have intentions. Rocks can't consider options.

You are claiming that this "higher rational agency or organizing principle", had an intention to bring the universe and everything in it, into existence. This "higher rational agency or organizing principle." Also made the decision to have that universe function under specific rules and laws.

Explain how this can happen without consciousness. How would this "higher rational agency or organizing principle" function without consciousness?

 

[ZenMode]

that would be the brain.

Yep. Where in the brain is the self that is thinking thought, feeling feelings, etc.

Where is the self that sits outside of the stream of consciousness and is making decisions?

 

[Jerry Mathers]

In order to intend to do anything requires consciousness. Rocks can't have intentions. Rocks can't consider options.

You are claiming that this "higher rational agency or organizing principle", had an intention to bring the universe and everything in it, into existence. This "higher rational agency or organizing principle." Also made the decision to have that universe function under specific rules and laws.

Explain how this can happen without consciousness. How would this "higher rational agency or organizing principle" function without consciousness?

these are masons leading you to a being, that being is Satan.

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Yep. Where in the brain is the self that is thinking thought, feeling feelings, etc.

Where is the self that sits outside of the stream of consciousness and is making decisions?

prefrontal cortex.

 

[ZenMode]

First, you didn't explain anything. Science describes, it doesn't explain. Nobody has an explanation for why human-invented mathematics of motion, gravity, electromagnetism so perfectly describes and reflects the physical universe. That is totally unexpected and hints at a rational fabric underlying all reality which our rational minds can access.

Second, the physics of mechanics are not an 'after the fact' method of analysis. We can and do use the laws of motion to accurately predict the past. Give n enough information, that is precisely why we know when Halleys comet made a pass around the sun five thousand years ago.

The mathematical laws of physics seem to have an existence independent of spacetime and seem to exist in some kind of higher platonic realm. That is what the esteemed theoretical physicists Aleksandr Valenkin and Alan Guth say. I think that makes sense.

Correct.
The mathematical laws of physics seem to have an existence independent of spacetime and seem to exist in some kind of higher platonic realm. That is what the esteemed theoretical physicists Aleksandr Valenkin and Alan Guth say.

Teying again ....

You are saying that a conscious creator has intentionally woven the laws of physics, and the corresponding equations, into the fabric of the universe and that man isn't truly creating physics and the corresponding equations, but is revealing them, because they already existed.

Do I have that right?

 

[ZenMode]

prefrontal cortex.

Are you saying that "you", the self, are the prefrontal cortex or are you saying that you are inside the prefrontal cortex?

 

[Jerry Mathers]

Are you saying that "you", the self, are the prefrontal cortex or are you saying that you are inside the prefrontal cortex?

I'm done now.

you're idiotting again.

 

[Cypress]

In order to intend to do anything requires consciousness. Rocks can't have intentions. Rocks can't consider options.

You are claiming that this "higher rational agency or organizing principle", had an intention to bring the universe and everything in it, into existence. This "higher rational agency or organizing principle." Also made the decision to have that universe function under specific rules and laws.

Explain how this can happen without consciousness. How would this "higher rational agency or organizing principle" function without consciousness?

If you want to call it consciousness, that's fine with me.

I don't know what consciousness really is, I don't know what causes it, I don't know if it's limited to human beings.

 

[Cypress]

Teying again ....

You are saying that a conscious creator has intentionally woven the laws of physics, and the corresponding equations, into the fabric of the universe and

Science, philosophy, and logic all presume the necessity of cause and effect.

I think a rational universe requires a cause, and I don't think an irrational cause can result in a rational effect.

Therefore, I think the best explanation for the universe is some kind of higher rational agency.

that man isn't truly creating physics

Man did not create physics. The four fundamental forces of physics existed before matter did. It seems that the Four forces were unified and existed from the very start of the universe, before electrons, protons, and neutrons.

In other words, the fundamental forces of physics were real and existed billions of years before you or any other human was born.

and the corresponding equations, but is revealing them, because they already existed.

Do I have that right?

Yep, it is well known among cosmologists and students of cosmology that the four fundamental forces of physics existed at the very beginning of the universe 13.8 billion years ago. These forces manifest themselves as mathematical relationships. This is taught in the first semester of a college level cosmology course.

 

[Into the Night]

Show me where the your "self" is?

You can't blame your fallacy on me or anybody else, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

Except there is no "you" that sits outside of your stream of consciousness that is able to choose. Your ultimate decision comes from a place in your brain that you don't control and have no visibility, so there is no true choice. Your brain was going to make whatever choice it was going to make.

Denial of self fallacy.