Divide States to Democratize the Senate

Get your head out of your ass. Where did I say anything in that quoted material about feds telling states what they must do???

You said, "Larger population states HAVE GOT TO SPLIT...or smaller population states must be amalgamated." If the states wanted to do this of their own accord, they already would have. That leaves only the feds.

Do you mean the war where the Union beat the shit out of the traitorous southern states?

Is that what it is called down there?

Yes, that's what it was called down here before government education whitewashed it from the history books.
 
Although the Constitution cannot be amended to deprive states of equal representation in the Senate, the Senate itself can be abolished. In 1911 the first socialist member of the U. S. House introduced an amendment to abolish the Senate.

"by 2040 or so, 70 percent of Americans will live in 15 states. Meaning 30 percent will choose 70 senators. And the 30% will be older, whiter, more rural, more male than the 70 percent."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...?utm_term=.63e8637ee4d8&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1
 
A liberal NYU law professor's solution to other liberals complaining about representation in the Senate.



Divide States to Democratize the Senate

A constitutionally sound fix to a vexing political problem.


‘No State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate,” declares Article V of the Constitution, which lays out the amendment process. A Californian has only 1/65th the representation of a Wyoming resident in the upper chamber. That’s undemocratic, but there’s no way around Article V.

Or is there? Article IV provides that “new States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union”—including from the territory of an existing state, if its legislature consents. Five states were created in this manner: Vermont from New York (1791), Kentucky from Virginia (1792), Tennessee from North Carolina (1796), Maine from Massachusetts (1820) and West Virginia from Virginia (1863).

Drawing on that tradition, a Democracy Restoration Act could grant blanket consent to populous but underrepresented states to go forth and multiply to restore the Senate’s democratic legitimacy.

Section 1 of the act would provide that whenever the decennial census identifies states with populations that exceed that of the least populous state by more than, say, 20 to 1, each of those largest states would have the option of dividing in half. Section 2 would condition the creation of any such state on the consent of the residents of both halves of the original state.

If, using the 2010 census, we set the trigger at 20 to 1, the six states exceeding 12 million people—California, Texas, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania and Illinois—with about 41% of America’s inhabitants, could split, yielding 12 new senators and dramatically reducing the Senate’s structural inequality. If we set the trigger at 10 to 1, 19 states with more than 70% of the U.S. population could generate 38 senators. Go all the way to 6 to 1—the ratio between the largest and smallest states when the Constitution was ratified—and 29 states yield 58 senators.

Given current political reality, such an effort to restore democracy to the Senate would likely attract more Democratic than Republican support. But it wouldn’t necessarily advantage either party. Bifurcating Texas and Florida would probably generate Democratic gains, with Georgia and Ohio up next; but splitting California, New York and Illinois could open up opportunities for Republicans. Once state boundaries were locked into place, Senate gerrymandering would become almost impossible. The future is unpredictable, but it would be determined by democratically legitimate institutions.

My fix wouldn’t be easy. Realistically, the Democratic Party would have to gain a Senate majority and the presidency under the existing, stacked system. Political leaders and residents in the underrepresented states would have to be willing to shake up the status quo to take advantage of the increased political power offered by creating new states. That means agreeing on fair boundaries, working out the problems of bifurcating (like liability for debts), and providing for joint administration of certain programs, possibly via interstate compacts.

The important thing is there’s a constitutional way to rescue the Senate from its current undemocratic condition.

Mr. Neuborne has taught law at New York University since 1972.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/divide-states-to-democratize-the-senate-1542672828?mod=hp_opin_pos2

Conservatives would definitely object and block any plan to divide blue states. Unless it also included plans to create extra red states, after which, what's the point?

Also division could very easily be used to make it even more disproportional. The current states are at a scale where the senate honestly isn't too much biased against them, at smaller scales though things to tend to become quickly more Republican. Like at the scale of districts, it's biased towards Republicans too, at the scale of counties it's like a different universe. It doesn't even begin to swing back left until you scale shit down far enough that you're giving a district to each voter and instituting one man one vote.
 
Although the Constitution cannot be amended to deprive states of equal representation in the Senate, the Senate itself can be abolished. In 1911 the first socialist member of the U. S. House introduced an amendment to abolish the Senate.

"by 2040 or so, 70 percent of Americans will live in 15 states. Meaning 30 percent will choose 70 senators. And the 30% will be older, whiter, more rural, more male than the 70 percent."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...?utm_term=.63e8637ee4d8&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

Honestly I'm not sure that's too clear, just abolishing the senate could be argued to deprive them of the equal representation in the senate the constitution promised. My suggestion would be to weaken its powers and make it more like the a house of review as in other nations. For instance, I definitely don't think that the senate should have power over money bills. It's unfair that small states get to use their power in the senate to force larger states to give them tax money vastly disproportional to their population.
 
Conservatives would definitely object and block any plan to divide blue states. Unless it also included plans to create extra red states, after which, what's the point?

Also division could very easily be used to make it even more disproportional. The current states are at a scale where the senate honestly isn't too much biased against them, at smaller scales though things to tend to become quickly more Republican. Like at the scale of districts, it's biased towards Republicans too, at the scale of counties it's like a different universe. It doesn't even begin to swing back left until you scale shit down far enough that you're giving a district to each voter and instituting one man one vote.

It's not right wingers stopping the division of California
 
Conservatives would definitely object and block any plan to divide blue states. Unless it also included plans to create extra red states, after which, what's the point?

Also division could very easily be used to make it even more disproportional. The current states are at a scale where the senate honestly isn't too much biased against them, at smaller scales though things to tend to become quickly more Republican. Like at the scale of districts, it's biased towards Republicans too, at the scale of counties it's like a different universe. It doesn't even begin to swing back left until you scale shit down far enough that you're giving a district to each voter and instituting one man one vote.
not everything is partisan just because everything is partisan..
 
It is all a lie you leftists tell yourselves. There was no "inversion" due to race. It never happened

It is not a lie.

The people fighting for "states rights"...the people fighting to continue slavery...WERE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...AND WERE DEMOCRATS.

The Democratic Party WAS the party that had all the conservatives.

The Republican Party was the party of progressives...and were opposed to the conservatives of the Democratic Party.

And the fact that American conservatives refuse to concede that point is hilarious.
 
You said, "Larger population states HAVE GOT TO SPLIT...or smaller population states must be amalgamated." If the states wanted to do this of their own accord, they already would have. That leaves only the feds.

Wake the fuck up.

That is twisting logic more than the most ignorant of people do.

If the states want to split themselves...they can. Obviously the states have not wanted to do so...so far.

That is what is left.


Yes, that's what it was called down here before government education whitewashed it from the history books.

Yeah...well, that must be what ignorant southerners call it. Anyone with brains realize it is universally called The American Civil War. (Kind of an oxymoron, I'd say.)
 
Not on topic, but that is not a "lie"

Democrats were the CONSERVATIVE political party as the Republican Party is today, you didn't really think they were called "Radical Republicans" because they were conservative did you?
it was Carter's economic disaster that caused the collapsible of the old demmycrat party of the south.....the Reagan Democrats were not a movement based on race.....
 
Honestly I'm not sure that's too clear, just abolishing the senate could be argued to deprive them of the equal representation in the senate the constitution promised. My suggestion would be to weaken its powers and make it more like the a house of review as in other nations. For instance, I definitely don't think that the senate should have power over money bills. It's unfair that small states get to use their power in the senate to force larger states to give them tax money vastly disproportional to their population.

Tax money is generally distributed based on income and poverty figures so the greatest share of the money goes to larger urban areas.

I don't have any problem with representation as it is now because it maintains the republican principle of the Constitution to represent territory and people and prevent larger factions from imposing their policies on others. They were trying to avoid the majority rule concept of democracy, not implement it.
 
Wake the fuck up.

That is twisting logic more than the most ignorant of people do.

If the states want to split themselves...they can. Obviously the states have not wanted to do so...so far.

That is what is left.
You're confused. You said the states must split, yet you say they don't want to. So why must they?

Yeah...well, that must be what ignorant southerners call it. Anyone with brains realize it is universally called The American Civil War. (Kind of an oxymoron, I'd say.)

History is written by the victors. That's why no one should trust it.
 
You're confused. You said the states must split, yet you say they don't want to. So why must they?

Get your head out of your ass.

I said that in order for the Senate (and Electoral College) to be fairer, the states must split. There is no other way, except by constitutional amendment...which seems impossible.

History is written by the victors. That's why no one should trust it.

Correct. But assholes like you will attempt to twist is even though you are part of the losers. Yours happens to be a laughable attempt...but it is an attempt.
 
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