End of the line for noted traitor Robert E Lee

[moon]

What I have not heard is a plausible explanation for why enemy combatants of a nation that waged war against the United States need to have their military commanders and battle standards incorporated into our public parks and into the symbols of State government.

You refuse to accept that the south had a moral right to defend its self-determination- and you see only slavers. Many of the Confederate defenders deserve their place in America's history. Many don't- but then the same must be applied to the victors.

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Over here, one of the BLM demonstrators, very much at his own risk, saved a drunken Nazi from, at best, a very serious beating. He pointed out that it might have been a good plan if some of the other Milwaukie police had had a similar policy when one of them was murdering Mr Floyd.

 

[Cypress]

Isn't Gettysburg's battlefields and memorials on public property? Do you and your ilk think you'll destroy the gravesites, memorials and tributes to the South up here in PA?

Please, by all means, bring it.
The Civil War was over 155 years ago, why are you libturds trying to rekindle it?

I have been there and some of those monuments are on private property.

Odd that there are no monuments of black Americans at Gettysburg.

The statues of Confederate generals need to go.

The only way I would support statues of Confederate generals at Gettysburg is if the park made a concerted effort to show and highlight the values these soldiers actually fought for:

American soldiers fought to preserve the Union and defeat an insurrection.

Confederates fought for the right to enslave millions of human beings.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

I have been there and some of those monuments are on private property.

Odd that there are no monuments of black Americans at Gettysburg.

The statues of Confederate generals need to go.

The only way I would support statues of Confederate generals at Gettysburg is if the park made a concerted effort to show and highlight the values these soldiers actually fought for:

American soldiers fought to preserve the Union and defeat an insurrection.

Confederates fought for the right to enslave millions of human beings.

I have reservations that you were ever here.

Gettysburg has one of the largest number of monuments in the country because it was one of the bloodiest battles of the war and turned the direction toward the Union.
That said, if you think these monuments must go, I would suggest you bring along all those who also want to tear down our monuments. Don't be surprised if you are met
by the residents here in PA. who will send you packing, or packed in a pine box.

 

[Cypress]

I have reservations that you were ever here.

Gettysburg has one of the largest number of monuments in the country because it was one of the bloodiest battles of the war and turned the direction toward the Union.
That said, if you think these monuments must go, I would suggest you bring along all those who also want to tear down our monuments. Don't be surprised if you are met
by the residents here in PA. who will send you packing, or packed in a pine box.

Explain to me exactly what the point is of lying on an obscure internet forum to someone I do not know and will never meet.

I have been to Gettysburg probably ten times. My papa would take us every summer from Washington DC. Like a two hour drive. My brother and I would always race up that observation tower and we would always take the battlefield tour with one of those old school cassette players.

I am also on record here saying I would defer to local residents as to whether they want to have those kind of statues. I just gave you mt my opinion.

But let's be honest. That battlefield is mostly a tourist trap. There is no significant effort made at educating the public about the war -- about the fundamental values those armies were fighting for and what it says about the Confederate and Union causes respectively.

 

[dukkha]

But let's be honest. That battlefield is mostly a tourist trap.

pathetic. people come from all over the world. are DC monument s "tourists traps"???

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

Explain to me exactly what the point is of lying on an obscure internet forum to someone I do not know and will never meet.

I have been to Gettysburg probably ten times. My papa would take us every summer from Washington DC. Like a two hour drive. My brother and I would always race up that observation tower and we would always take the battlefield tour with one of those old school cassette players.

I am also on record here saying I would defer to local residents as to whether they want to have those kind of statues. I just gave you mt my opinion.

But let's be honest. That battlefield is mostly a tourist trap. There is no significant effort made at educating the public about the war -- about the fundamental values those armies were fighting for and what it says about the Confederate and Union causes respectively.

Lying about what?
Boat Cruise, Bus Tour, Campfire/Evening Program, Children’s Program, Cultural/Craft Demonstration, Exhibition/Show Festival, Guided Tour, Hikes, Living History Management/Planning. Other Partner Programs include Performance Ride and Virtual/Digital Volunteer Event Walk among a few other educational activities.

Yeah, a tourist trap, like in DC's monuments, right? They give educational tours, don't they? (NOT!)
What is it about monuments that triggers you into wanting them removed? Why are you "offended"?

 

[Cypress]

pathetic. people come from all over the world. are DC monument s "tourists traps"???

I have been to the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial probably more often than anyone who has ever posted on jpp.com, so that should tell you I like visiting it.

And I definitely think the American soldiers who fought to preserve the Union should be honored. I actually get a little chill up my spine when I stand at the top of the field where the rebel commander Picket led his charge against American soldiers

 

[Cypress]

Lying about what?
Boat Cruise, Bus Tour, Campfire/Evening Program, Children’s Program, Cultural/Craft Demonstration, Exhibition/Show Festival, Guided Tour, Hikes, Living History Management/Planning. Other Partner Programs include Performance Ride and Virtual/Digital Volunteer Event Walk among a few other educational activities.

Yeah, a tourist trap, like in DC's monuments, right? They give educational tours, don't they? (NOT!)
What is it about monuments that triggers you into wanting them removed? Why are you "offended"?

You suggested I was lying when you said this:

"I have reservations that you were ever here."

I do not knowingly lie about anything. Life is simpler that way.

I need you to explain to me exactly what the point is of lying on an obscure message board to people I do not know and will never meet.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

You suggested I was lying when you said this:

"I have reservations that you were ever here."

I do not knowingly lie about anything. Life is simpler that way.

I need you to explain to me exactly what the point is of lying on an obscure message board to people I do not know and will never meet.

You said There is no significant effort made at educating the public about the war when there is, that's why I said what I did.

 

[Cypress]

You said There is no significant effort made at educating the public about the war when there is, that's why I said what I did.

Maybe things have changed since I was last there, but I do not remember any statues of black Americans, no memorials to the victims of slavery, and almost no deep discussion of the reasons for the South's rebellion. No reflection on the values American soldiers and Confederate rebels were fighting for

That is ultimately the context for the battle

The visitor center show and the self guided cassette tape tour was almost exclusively focused on the tactical battlefield situatuon. That is what I remember.

But I have not been there in 20 years, so I stand corrected if they have improved the educational function of the memorial

 

[Phantasmal]

Over here, one of the BLM demonstrators, very much at his own risk, saved a drunken Nazi from, at best, a very serious beating. He pointed out that it might have been a good plan if some of the other Milwaukie police had had a similar policy.

I saw the video, very humble fellow crediting others for helping him save the other guy from a sound beating.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

Maybe things have changed since I was last there, but I do not remember any statues of black Americans, no memorials to the victims of slavery, and almost no deep discussion of the reasons for the South's rebellion. No reflection on the values American soldiers and Confederate rebels were fighting for

That is ultimately the context for the battle

The visitor center show and the self guided cassette tape tour was almost exclusively focused on the tactical battlefield situatuon. That is what I remember.

But I have not been there in 20 years, so I stand corrected if they have improved the educational function of the memorial

57,000 Americans died at Gettysburg over 3 days, which is what the Museum and monuments represent. Both sides are represented, it was the bloodiest battle of the war. There are other sites dedicated to why the war was fought, the Underground Railroad museum in Ohio and a number or other places are reserved for the slaves and the defeat of slavery. There's one in Phila., you can google the rest.
The Gettysburg battlefield is reserved for just that, the bloodiest battle and loss of life during the war.

 

[Cypress]

57,000 Americans died at Gettysburg over 3 days, which is what the Museum and monuments represent. Both sides are represented, it was the bloodiest battle of the war. There are other sites dedicated to why the war was fought, the Underground Railroad museum in Ohio and a number or other places are reserved for the slaves and the defeat of slavery. There's one in Phila., you can google the rest.
The Gettysburg battlefield is reserved for just that, the bloodiest battle and loss of life during the war.

I am a geek for the history of battlefield tactics - and have the posts to prove it .

But that is an extremely shallow perspective on the historical meaning of war and military conflict

Gettysburg was the most pivotal moment in the most pivotal war America ever fought against its enemies.

A true watershed moment.

While I appreciated hearing about how good the Union sharpshooters were, the only way to gain insights on the moral and historical lessons of that conflict is to able to reflect on the values Union and Confederate soldiers were fighting for respectively, the moral, economic, and political backdrop to the war, and an honest discussion of slavery which was a primary reason thousands of men died on those fields.

When I was there, I felt the memorial did a good job reviewing battle field tactics, but not such a good job explaining the broader historical backdrop or reflecting on the moral dimensions and fundamental motivations of the conflict.

 

[Rusty Bell 65]

I am a geek for the history of battlefield tactics - and have the posts to prove it .

But that is an extremely shallow perspective on the historical meaning of war and military conflict

Gettysburg was the most pivotal moment in the most pivotal war America ever fought against its enemies.

While I appreciated hearing about how good the Union sharpshooters were, the only way to gain insights on the moral and historical lessons of that conflict is to able to reflect on the values Union and Confederate soldiers were fighting for respectively, the moral, economic, and political backdrop to the war, and an honest discussion of slavery which was a primary reason thousands of men died on those fields.

When I was there, I felt the memorial did a good job reviewing battle field tactics, but not such a good job explaining the broader historical backdrop or reflecting on the moral dimensions and fundamental motivations of the conflict.

Again, Gettysburg is where the most lives were lost during the war. It should hold a reverent place in the hearts and minds of ALL Americans. It is up to them to reflect what it means to each individual.
And once again, the "morality" is a non-factor at Gettysburg. The battle fields, museums and monuments reflect nothing more than the battle there, and the turning point of the war.

 

[anatta]

I am a geek for the history of battlefield tactics - and have the posts to prove it .

But that is an extremely shallow perspective on the historical meaning of war and military conflict

Gettysburg was the most pivotal moment in the most pivotal war America ever fought against its enemies.

A true watershed moment.

While I appreciated hearing about how good the Union sharpshooters were, the only way to gain insights on the moral and historical lessons of that conflict is to able to reflect on the values Union and Confederate soldiers were fighting for respectively, the moral, economic, and political backdrop to the war, and an honest discussion of slavery which was a primary reason thousands of men died on those fields.

When I was there, I felt the memorial did a good job reviewing battle field tactics, but not such a good job explaining the broader historical backdrop or reflecting on the moral dimensions and fundamental motivations of the conflict.

JFC.
the morals shift with time .the moral of Gettysburg is also the reconcilliation between the soldiers.
And the country
~~

One union soldier and one Confederate went to a hardware store and bought a hatchet.
They literally "buried the hatchet" in the dirt
Now 150 years lter the Cultural Revolution has seen fit to dig it back up and start wielding it again

 

[anatta]

Burying the Civil War Hatchet – The Great Gettysburg Reunion of 1913
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/11/28/gettysburg-great-reunion-of-1913/

 

[anatta]

A small group of Union and Confederate soldiers went to a local hardware store. They all pitched in to buy a small hatchet, which they would later bury on the battle field.
They understood that the civil war was over, and we were one country. A country that learns from its mistakes, forgives them, and moves forward.
https://theunfinishedpyramid.com/2019/07/02/burying-the-hatchet-at-gettysburg/

 

[anatta]

regarding the statues:

We have found one another again as brothers and comrades in arms, enemies no longer, generous friends rather,
our battles long past, the quarrel forgotten—except that we shall not forget the splendid valor.”

 

[LV426]

JFC.
the morals shift with time .the moral of Gettysburg is also the reconcilliation between the soldiers.
And the country
~~

One union soldier and one Confederate went to a hardware store and bought a hatchet.
They literally "buried the hatchet" in the dirt
Now 150 years lter the Cultural Revolution has seen fit to dig it back up and start wielding it again

OK, and this has what to do with the reason for why the Confederates fought?