For those who love to blame boomers for EVERYTHING wrong in the country....

Uncensored2008 said:
This is how badly government guarantees of loans have corrupted the educational system. The Educational Institutional Complex is insulated from the consumer, with students and their parents not even realizing the actual cost and gouging higher education is engaged in - since Uncle Sucker is picking up the tab.
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“Uncle Sucker”?

At $40 trillion in federal debt, Uncle Sam isn’t picking up the tab. He’s borrowing it.

The taxpayer still pays—just later, with interest.

So if you think government-backed loans make expensive college “affordable,” the sucker in this equation is the person pretending debt makes costs disappear.
 
zymurgy said:
A student loan does not lower tuition. It lets someone pay a high price today with future income.
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No, generally it increases tuition. But 20% of students will outright default, and another 35% will receive some sort loan forgiveness, by working for government or certain segments that have government programs.

zymurgy said:
And “students have more cashflow because loans pay living expenses” is not evidence they are better off. Borrowed money increases cash on hand, but it also creates debt. That is financing, not increased wealth.
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You are moving goalposts. College is VASTLY more affordable to the student now than in 1970. Not only can anyone , including illegal aliens enroll in a 4 year college without laying out a dime, many of them will have more cash on hand after enrollment.

zymurgy said:
The actual affordability question is simple: How large is the cost relative to income?
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Not according to Webster. Long term financial impact is actually varied. The defaulters will now face credit issues - but were immune during the Obama administrations, including the Biden puppet. The 10% who earn a STEM related degree will likely have the earning potential to repay the loan without burden. And those who enter government at any level won't be required to repay loans at all.

zymurgy said:
On that measure, college is less affordable than it was in 1970.
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In reality though, it is more affordable as students don't need to put down 20% of their parent's income to attend the first class. The need for cash in hand was a barrier to many people to attend college. They couldn't AFFORD the hit to bank accounts or qualify for a second mortgage, couldn't come up with the cash. Simply put, they couldn't afford college.

zymurgy said:
You are using easier access to debt as proof that the underlying product became cheaper. It didn't.
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I never said it was cheaper - I said it was more affordable - far more people can afford it.
 
zymurgy said:
“Uncle Sucker”?

At $40 trillion in federal debt, Uncle Sam isn’t picking up the tab. He’s borrowing it.

The taxpayer still pays—just later, with interest.

So if you think government-backed loans make expensive college “affordable,” the sucker in this equation is the person pretending debt makes costs disappear.
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Before Uncle Sucker picked up the tab - college meant writing a check. Only those with cash could go or send their kids. Now it means a little extra in the pocket for Junior. Maybe the loan will need to be repaid someday - maybe not. But getting a butt in the seat no longer requires sacrifice and planning - anyone can afford it.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
No, generally it increases tuition. But 20% of students will outright default, and another 35% will receive some sort loan forgiveness, by working for government or certain segments that have government programs.



You are moving goalposts. College is VASTLY more affordable to the student now than in 1970. Not only can anyone , including illegal aliens enroll in a 4 year college without laying out a dime, many of them will have more cash on hand after enrollment.



Not according to Webster. Long term financial impact is actually varied. The defaulters will now face credit issues - but were immune during the Obama administrations, including the Biden puppet. The 10% who earn a STEM related degree will likely have the earning potential to repay the loan without burden. And those who enter government at any level won't be required to repay loans at all.



In reality though, it is more affordable as students don't need to put down 20% of their parent's income to attend the first class. The need for cash in hand was a barrier to many people to attend college. They couldn't AFFORD the hit to bank accounts or qualify for a second mortgage, couldn't come up with the cash. Simply put, they couldn't afford college.



I never said it was cheaper - I said it was more affordable - far more people can afford it.
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Le Sigh

Cars are the same example. Two-car households are common now because two adults often have to work because so much of life is less affordable — and then both need transportation.


At the same time, auto lending has expanded and loan terms have gotten longer, making expensive cars easier to finance.


That does not mean cars became more affordable. It means people can spread a higher cost over more years.


More consumption plus easier credit is not proof of affordability.


I’m done arguing economics with a poser. If you think life is more affordable because we have greater access to debt, good luck with that.
 
zymurgy said:
Le Sigh

Cars are the same example. Two-car households are common now because two adults often have to work because so much of life is less affordable — and then both need transportation.


At the same time, auto lending has expanded and loan terms have gotten longer, making expensive cars easier to finance.


That does not mean cars became more affordable. It means people can spread a higher cost over more years.


More consumption plus easier credit is not proof of affordability.


I’m done arguing economics with a poser. If you think life is more affordable because we have greater access to debt, good luck with that.
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Don't pay your car loan and your car will be repossessed. Prior to last year, not paying a student loan had no impact at all, not even on a credit score. Trump has reversed the Obiden rule against reporting to credit agencies, but this is a very recent development.

You are comparing apples and hand grenades.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
Don't pay your car loan and your car will be repossessed. Prior to last year, not paying a student loan had no impact at all, not even on a credit score. Trump has reversed the Obiden rule against reporting to credit agencies, but this is a very recent development.

You are comparing apples and hand grenades.
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You’re now using a temporary COVID-era suspension of collections as your definition of affordability.


Before that extraordinary pause, student-loan default absolutely had financial consequences, including credit reporting.


But even granting your point, it changes nothing: making default less painful does not make tuition more affordable.


You’ve gone from “more people attend, therefore it’s affordable” to “they can borrow it” to “they might not have to repay all of it.”


Every step is about financing and debt treatment, not the cost of college relative to income.


Apples and hand grenades indeed.
 
Jerry Mathers said:
but you cant get a house on 17.79 an hour today.

you're missing the point.
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No, I completely realize that.

Before the 1970's, someone who framed a house could buy a house. During the 1970's and 1980's the pay was cut heavily, but it was OK, because immigrants who framed a house used it as a transition job to become Americans, and maybe buy a house. Now we made the immigrants feel unwelcome, and there is no one to build a house.
 
Walt said:
No, I completely realize that.

Before the 1970's, someone who framed a house could buy a house. During the 1970's and 1980's the pay was cut heavily, but it was OK, because immigrants who framed a house used it as a transition job to become Americans, and maybe buy a house. Now we made the immigrants feel unwelcome, and there is no one to build a house.
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Americans will learn again after our globalists quit fucking up the opportunities.

your take is retarded.
 
Jerry Mathers said:
Americans will learn again after our globalists quit fucking up the opportunities.
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We first need to raise wages, which will take years, then convince young people the wages are higher, which tapes years, then train the people who will train the people... It will take decades to get back what we had in the 1970's.

And by that time we will have robots doing a lot of the work.

Anyway, what trump is throwing away will take a long time to replace.
 
Walt said:
We first need to raise wages, which will take years, then convince young people the wages are higher, which tapes years, then train the people who will train the people... It will take decades to get back what we had in the 1970's.

And by that time we will have robots doing a lot of the work.

Anyway, what trump is throwing away will take a long time to replace.
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But you've spent decades driving wages down. The primary reason you Communists have imported 60 million illegals is to destroy the middle class by driving down wages. It is your illegals who changed construction from a middle class job to menial labor. It is your illegals who destroyed the ability of workers to own a home from working in a factory job.

The wage crisis is 100% the doing of the Marxist democrat party - with illegal immigration a huge part of it.

By stopping you Bolsheviks from importing millions of illegals each year, Trump is driving middle class wages UP - which you will not stand for. Destroying the middle class, the Bourgeoisie, was, is, and always will be the prime directive of the democrat party - and all Marxists.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
But you've spent decades driving wages down.
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Wow, I have a lot of power that I did not know about. The Team Epstein exaggerates their own power, and everyone else's power.

The rest of Team Epstein's post is as crazy as the trump administration claiming Canada should get high tariffs because they outlawed unions so work cheaper. Canada is far, far more unionized than the USA, and have not outlawed unions.

Team Epstein needs to so insane things to cover up the insanity of what they are doing for trump.
 
Jerry Mathers said:
Americans will learn again after our globalists quit fucking up the opportunities.

your take is retarded.
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In extremist circles, "globalist" does not just mean someone who supports international cooperation. It implies a shadowy, secret group—often stereotyped as Jewish—that controls world banks, media, and governments.
 
Guno צְבִי said:
In extremist circles, "globalist" does not just mean someone who supports international cooperation. It implies a shadowy, secret group—often stereotyped as Jewish—that controls world banks, media, and governments.
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its not just Jews. Jews are the front men.

these are old families that are probably half alien running this shit from their holodecks, of recent Dutch and Italian cover nationality.
 
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