Money Truly Doesn't Buy Happiness - World's Richest Man Bezos Is Getting A Divorce...

iolo said:
It's not my vision, kid. If the species is to survive at all (which I very much doubt it will) working people will have to take the dangerous toys away from your idiot masters. It's as simple as that.
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Again, just to be clear, idiot masters = entrepreneurs and those who create businesses, companies and jobs?
 
cawacko said:
In your socialist world who creates new products and how are they funded?
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They won't need to be funded - we'll just make what we need, obviously. And it won't be my world but humanity's. Leaves you out, I suppose, with your thieving masters? :)
 
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iolo said:
They won't need to be funded - we'll just make what we need, obviously. And it won't be my world but humanity'. Leaves you out, I suppose, with your thieving masters? :)
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"we'll just make what's needed"

Who would have created that computer and then internet that is allowing us to communicate now? A mate in one part of the globe would have said back in the day "let's create something that allows us all to communicate!" And someone would have said "I've seen the future and it is called a computer and here's how you build it..." and voila, a computer was born?
 
cawacko said:
"we'll just make what's needed"

Who would have created that computer and then internet that is allowing us to communicate now? A mate in one part of the globe would have said back in the day "let's create something that allows us all to communicate!" And someone would have said "I've seen the future and it is called a computer and here's how you build it..." and voila, a computer was born?
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You making some point here? |How do you think computers were created, kid?
 
iolo said:
You making some point here? |How do you think computers were created, kid?
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am I making a point that inventors (entrepreneurs), the ones who you call evil thief's, continually have created new products that have moved the world forward and needed funding to do so? No, not making a point at "kid".
 
cawacko said:
am I making a point that inventors (entrepreneurs), the ones who you call evil thief's, continually have created new products that have moved the world forward and needed funding to do so? No, not making a point at "kid".
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The greedy have made the means of prosperity for us all, so now it is time to kick them out and get on with sensible living instead of pretending we have to work twenty-four hours a day. Once we eliminate the thieves and their hatred, we have all the time in the world to develop humanity to its full extent, just as we choose. Now why not have a think and stop getting worked up about being old enough to have grandchildren, there's a good kid: thirty-year-olds can do that! :)
 
cawacko said:
Would there be a President or singular “leader” of any sort? Would there be elections or do they impede the path to socialism?
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We don't have to scarp our Constitution to implement more socialism. There is nothing in our Constitution which states that we will be a solely capitalist nation.
 
cawacko said:
We don’t have unfettered capitalism or anything close. That is a massive straw man. And since you brought up conservatives are you with iolo that we shouldn’t have a president and somehow a workers parsdie of socialism will magically appear? Is that the liberal position now?
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I would advise you to stop trying to define 'the liberal position,' and stop trying to hold individuals responsible for your straw man. It is unrealistic, and invented. I think you will gain a better understanding of the world if you assume that people have differing positions and they each individual is entitled to their own view. I believe you have mischaracterized Iolo's position. And I certainly do not subscribe to that.

I also never said we have unfettered capitalism. What we do have is too much unrestrained and improperly regulated capitalism. And it is hurting our nation.

Think about it.

What does capitalism do?

It allows those with access to great capital to have great power. Capitalism makes the rich very powerful. It also creates a huge problem. When very greedy people who are obsessed with fortune-building get access to great power they always use it for the same thing. They seek to accumulate as much wealth as possible. More more more. It's all they know. The overall effect hurts the economy because their efforts concentrate wealth and sequester wealth OUT of circulation. Our economy is built on the active trading of wealth for products and services. If most people don't have much wealth, they can't be buying things. When people slow down on buying things (due to a lack of available funds for doing so,) that means the economy slows down.

The result of improperly regulated capitalism is a that economic activity recedes. If it persists we call that a recession. If that goes on long enough, we call that a depression.

Government regulation is our only defense against having recessions and depressions. Things like Social Security, government assistance programs and the minimum wage all act to forestall recessions. If those things are a form of socialism then that is what we need to prevent our economy from melting down.

Without government regulation and socialism, capitalism would self-implode.

Capitalism is not doing very well right now in the big overall picture. I say this despite the soaring stock market, and strong economy, because I am looking at other indicators. The US birth rate is so low that without immigration, we are losing population. People feel so economically insecure that they don't feel comfortable having large families. Or they just don't have kids at all. The other major indicator is the federal debt. The wild rise of the super-rich comes at a time when government is being deprived of sufficient revenue to maintain a balanced budget. The powerful get rich. The government gets poor. The rich take from the country as they give to themselves.

If the economy is strong right now, that should be generating the maximum revenue compared to a time when the economy is weak. If we can't pay down the federal debt during a strong economy we will never be able to do it during a weak one. A weak economy generates less revenue than a strong one. We need more revenue. Cutting spending will only weaken the economy and reduce revenue. More cuts after that would make it worse, not better. We need to tax the rich more, and expand our government safety net. We have to redistribute wealth, or it will be too concentrated.

And we need to regulate capitalism even more strongly than we already are.
 
cawacko said:
Again, just to be clear, idiot masters = entrepreneurs and those who create businesses, companies and jobs?
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You could categorize them like that. Or it could just as easily be said that they are the ones who extract wealth from society and government in order to concentrate it into vast personal fortunes, at the expense of everything else which others hold important.

They begrudgingly hire workers only because it is required for them to build their fortunes. As soon as they find machines which can replace workers they do so without hesitation. Which is why capitalism is doomed. Capitalism is so efficient at developing new technology (used mostly for the purpose of wealth concentration) that it is poised on the precipice of eliminating vast categories of workers, with no real vision for generating new jobs or careers. As capitalists eliminate labor costs, they also unwittingly eliminate consumerism, the engine of capitalism.

Capitalists are in the process of slowly destroying their own market.

That is why capitalism as we know it is doomed.

Did you think wealth extraction and concentration could just go on forever, wealth inequality becoming more and more extreme?

And that wouldn't cause any unwanted consequences?

We do live in interesting times.
 
PoliTalker said:
You could categorize them like that. Or it could just as easily be said that they are the ones who extract wealth from society and government in order to concentrate it into vast personal fortunes, at the expense of everything else which others hold important.

They begrudgingly hire workers only because it is required for them to build their fortunes. As soon as they find machines which can replace workers they do so without hesitation. Which is why capitalism is doomed. Capitalism is so efficient at developing new technology (used mostly for the purpose of wealth concentration) that it is poised on the precipice of eliminating vast categories of workers, with no real vision for generating new jobs or careers. As capitalists eliminate labor costs, they also unwittingly eliminate consumerism, the engine of capitalism.

Capitalists are in the process of slowly destroying their own market.

That is why capitalism as we know it is doomed.

Did you think wealth extraction and concentration could just go on forever, wealth inequality becoming more and more extreme?

And that wouldn't cause any unwanted consequences?

We do live in interesting times.
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Capitalism requires the humans to be skilled and useful. The problem is we are producing humans with few skills that are useful. Making youtube videos about unboxing items is not a skill that's useful to society. It might help advertisers.
 
PoliTalker said:
We don't have to scarp our Constitution to implement more socialism. There is nothing in our Constitution which states that we will be a solely capitalist nation.
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Poli, I was responding to iolo. Look at what he wrote then you will understand the context of my question.
 
PoliTalker said:
I would advise you to stop trying to define 'the liberal position,' and stop trying to hold individuals responsible for your straw man. It is unrealistic, and invented. I think you will gain a better understanding of the world if you assume that people have differing positions and they each individual is entitled to their own view. I believe you have mischaracterized Iolo's position. And I certainly do not subscribe to that.

I also never said we have unfettered capitalism. What we do have is too much unrestrained and improperly regulated capitalism. And it is hurting our nation.

Think about it.

What does capitalism do?

It allows those with access to great capital to have great power. Capitalism makes the rich very powerful. It also creates a huge problem. When very greedy people who are obsessed with fortune-building get access to great power they always use it for the same thing. They seek to accumulate as much wealth as possible. More more more. It's all they know. The overall effect hurts the economy because their efforts concentrate wealth and sequester wealth OUT of circulation. Our economy is built on the active trading of wealth for products and services. If most people don't have much wealth, they can't be buying things. When people slow down on buying things (due to a lack of available funds for doing so,) that means the economy slows down.

The result of improperly regulated capitalism is a that economic activity recedes. If it persists we call that a recession. If that goes on long enough, we call that a depression.

Government regulation is our only defense against having recessions and depressions. Things like Social Security, government assistance programs and the minimum wage all act to forestall recessions. If those things are a form of socialism then that is what we need to prevent our economy from melting down.

Without government regulation and socialism, capitalism would self-implode.

Capitalism is not doing very well right now in the big overall picture. I say this despite the soaring stock market, and strong economy, because I am looking at other indicators. The US birth rate is so low that without immigration, we are losing population. People feel so economically insecure that they don't feel comfortable having large families. Or they just don't have kids at all. The other major indicator is the federal debt. The wild rise of the super-rich comes at a time when government is being deprived of sufficient revenue to maintain a balanced budget. The powerful get rich. The government gets poor. The rich take from the country as they give to themselves.

If the economy is strong right now, that should be generating the maximum revenue compared to a time when the economy is weak. If we can't pay down the federal debt during a strong economy we will never be able to do it during a weak one. A weak economy generates less revenue than a strong one. We need more revenue. Cutting spending will only weaken the economy and reduce revenue. More cuts after that would make it worse, not better. We need to tax the rich more, and expand our government safety net. We have to redistribute wealth, or it will be too concentrated.

And we need to regulate capitalism even more strongly than we already are.
Click to expand...

Poli, you brought up in the post I responded to what you felt conservatives believe. It you don't want me to state what liberals believe in response don't do the same yourself. And my post and discussion with iolo had nothing to do with liberals and conservatives. Most U.S. liberals are still capitalists according to iolo's beliefs and he believes capitalists are evil.

Feel free to respond to him with where you agree or disagree with him. It could make for an interesting discussion.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
"we'll just make what's needed"

Who would have created that computer and then internet that is allowing us to communicate now? A mate in one part of the globe would have said back in the day "let's create something that allows us all to communicate!" And someone would have said "I've seen the future and it is called a computer and here's how you build it..." and voila, a computer was born?
Click to expand...

People will always create new things. It is done out of curiosity. Did you think Dr. Jonas Salk worked so hard and cured polio for profit? No. He did it because it needed to be done, and he realized he might be able to do it. So he tried. He wanted society to have it. So he tried, (really hard for a long time) and he did it. It didn't make him rich. It could have. He could have sold it. He was fine. He already had a nice house. Moderate house. He was happy to have been able to do it. He made it widely available for free. He was what we called: 'A nice guy.'

He was not alone. The world is full of nice guys. Still is.

Did you think Nikola Tesla gave us AC, Alternating Current, the basis of our electrical infrastructure, for profit? No. He was simply fascinated with electricity and suspected it was possible to create an AC motor. Everybody laughed at him. Edison thought he was a kook and fired him. Edison was wrong. He had already wired several blocks of NYC on DC power so he didn't want to accept that Tesla was right. Tesla actually went to work as a laborer until George Westinghouse took an interest in Tesla's AC current idea. Westinghouse was a great capitalist. He got Tesla to sign away his rights to the invention in return for building it. Westinghouse got fabulously rich 'creating jobs.' Tesla died poor. After all he did for mankind and the USA.

Most people don't work jobs to get rich. Only the owners of a successful company get rich. The capitalists.

The workers get paid. That's it. Most stand no chance of becoming ultra wealthy at all. They get their agreed pay. And get shown the door after they are no longer useful.

Many workers don't work for capitalists. But they still work hard. They work full time jobs with lots of stress and goals and hard work. All without working for capitalists. People simply like working at something, seeing results, and achieving that sense of accomplishment that comes with a career. They work for the government or non-profits. Or they run small limited sole proprietorships or partnerships.

Most mom n pop small businesses are limited in scope. It's an independent job but usually there's no getting rich running a small store. It's just an independent job. They are capitalists, but not usually the kind we see giving capitalism a bad name. They're just making a living, not trying to rip people off. If they do well, they truly earned it.

The workers who work for extreme capitalists have been convinced to believe in capitalism, fantasize that some day riches will come their way. But unless they go out and try to make that happen, 99% of the time it does not happen.

Most workers are not motivated to work by the profit motive. They work hard because they are afraid if they don't, they will lose their job. Yes, they are in competition. They are in competition with the other workers and they know if they look bad in comparison that their job is not as secure.

People work because it feels good to accomplish something, to serve a purpose to society, be a part of things, be a productive member of society, one of the collective. We sure as heck don't live alone on this planet! Everybody is faced with the same lifetime challenge: Figure out where you fit into this whole thing...

What more people should do is just think positively. There's a lot of good around, but it doesn't make the news. There's good people EVERYWHERE. Mostly you don't hear about them. Maybe if somebody does something extraordinary they might get one of those feel-good spots on the news, a one-shot deal. If it's bad news we beat it to death. Under capitalism, the most profitable media story is bad news that keeps getting updated with new information. What a money-maker! But good news? Forget it. Good way to get your ratings in the dump. But just because we hear this constant stream of bad news all the time doesn't mean the world is such a bad place. All that kind of stuff has always been going on. We're just hearing about it non-stop now unless we tune it out.

I think too many people get too addicted to this social media and mass media technology. It's like we're turning into The Borg from Star Trek Next Gen. All this constant stream of data is causing our nation to be super polarized. That's not an encouraging thing. So we need to think more positively. And the cool thing is that is really easy to do. Just look for the good. It's out there. Make it a habit. There's always some good. Look for the good, make it your own. Think positive thoughts. All of the problems the world faces have possible solutions. All we can do is our best to try to solve them. It is of little practical or logical use to dwell on the bad. So think positive thoughts. It is the rational thing to do!

That's why I try to be positive here in my posting and everywhere in my life. We're not going to get anywhere being hung up on how bad somebody else is and letting that dominate our thoughts. We'll do far better if we feel good about the world, and about ourselves. My life is great. I don't know about you, but I love MY life. I wish everybody could enjoy their life as much as I enjoy mine. I worked for what I have, as a sole proprietor and as an employee. I've worked as a fund-raiser for a worthy charity. I've been a musician who played for free, entertained hundreds, volunteered for food drives, clean-ups. I've run amateur sports events, volunteered at concerts to get in free. I've got lots of great friends, and we enjoy life together, share our lives, keep in touch, have parties, celebrate and mourn together.

Life is what you make it.

I would advise anyone who wants to enjoy their life as much as I am enjoying mine to begin by thinking more positively. The good news is not going to slap you in the face. You have to look for it!

And yeah. People will work for other reasons than the profit motive.

Sometimes I think capitalism is almost a religion to some people. I know otherwise.
 
PoliTalker said:
Happiness can't be purchased.

Plenty of people are quite happy with their lives, even if they are not rich.

And there are very rich people who are not happy. Such as the richest man on Earth.

And our President.
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Teabaggers have a history of blurting out that liberals are "jealous" of Trump's wealth, Romney's wealth, Koch brothers wealth, et al.

To me, the only type of people who could possibly blurt out that kind of unsubstantiated assertion are those who are profoundly unhappy themselves.

We all want enough money to be reasonably comfortable. But actual happiness comes from a wellspring of intangibles in life: family, inner peace, self-respect, personal fulfillment, etc, etc. Those cannot be purchased with money.


I would not entertain the notion for even a nanosecond to trade what I have in my life, for what the Koch brothers have in theirs.
 
I would take their money and help people

what kind if evil fuck thinks massive stacks if green paper are more important than children starving '


the mega wealthy are often sociopaths

they continued to AMASSE money instead of picking to change the world for the better with soo much power to change things



massive wealth will ALWAYS lead to evil unless you have a deep soul.



most who merely use amassed wealth to get what THEY want are evil


I feel guilt when I missed an opportunity to help someone.


Often remembering for YEARS my mistake


If I had the KOCH bros wealthy I soon wouldn't have the KOCH brothers wealth

It would be shared with the deserving


The funny thing is when you have that much wealth you accidently make money often


you spread it around and it returns simply out of HOW you help people


say you see an education need somewhere so you buy property to start an education facility and hire educators and staff.


they then improve the areas economy with their paychecks and the education improves the areas economy


Now your property is worthy way more than you paid for it and people are clamoring to go to and teach at you facility
 
Hello evince,

evince said:
If I had the KOCH bros wealthy I soon wouldn't have the KOCH brothers wealth

It would be shared with the deserving


The funny thing is when you have that much wealth you accidently make money often
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Well, you know, that's a very generous thought. But even a fortune that large is not enough to help everybody in need. And if that fortune was given away it would create a one-time benefit for those people it could help, on a one-shot basis. And then it would be gone, and the benefit would be over. And things would go right back to the way they were.

But if you took that money and created a foundation for the purpose of helping the needy, then the principle could be maintained and never depleted, and the interest could be used to help people forever.
 
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